Posted on 11/24/2009 4:10:44 PM PST by NYer
Statistics released Nov. 24 by the FBI show hate crimes against religious groups increased by 9% from 2007 to 2008.
USA Today reported that in 2008, there 1,519 incidents against people based on their religion, the statistics show.
The figures reveal that while anti-Jewish attacks made up the highest percentage of the attacks (17%), there was an increase in hate crimes against Catholics — 75, up from 61 in 2007.
Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, said the increase may be due to the Church becoming more vocal on life issues such as abortion and homosexual unions.
As the Catholic bishops take a stronger stance, he said, it filters down to the laity, and as more traditional Catholics become more vocal, they become targets for those who disagree with them.
“Unfortunately, it spills over into violence,” he said, adding that it’s just going to get worse before it gets better.
“I’ve never seen our country so culturally divided and so polarized,” he said. “These issues are not going away.”
Of course you are omitting the Messianic Jews on purpose, right? They are Jewish by genetics and Christian by their chosen faith. I know several and they would strenously object to being told they are not Jewish Christians. :o)
We agree but you want to refute me later?
BTW, do you know of a reliable Orthodox Jewish FReeper?
No I don't. The only person associated wiht Judaism I know on FR is Zionist Conspirator, who is a goldmine of infomration. However, he is not Jewish, but a Noachide, and chances are you won't get him to answer you before Saturday evening.
I am not. Messianic Jews are Pharisees/modern Jews who believe in the coming of the Messiah (who hasn't come yet) and the resurrection of the dead.
If you are referring to a Christian sect that calls itself "Messianic Jews," you bet I am leaving them out on purpose.
I know several and they would strenously object to being told they are not Jewish Christians. :o)
I am sure they would. However, one thing all Jewish sects agree on is that one cannot be a Christian and remain a Jew, just as one could not become a Muslim and remain a Jew.
The Church does not teach that it is a place but a "state (or condition) of a soul." Technically peaking a soul could be in "heaven" right next to a soul that is in "hell."
Alex, Real Presence is a matter of a religious conviction, a matter of faith, and not something you can rationally argue for or against because the very concept of it a mysterion (secret, sacrament), which defies reason. You can either believe it or not.
I think one of the major errors encountered on the religion forum is a miracle treated as a "rational" event.
Exactly. And this is the concensus patrum, which +Isaac the Syrian explained so well: "I say that those who are suffering in hell, are suffering in being scourged by love.... It is totally false to think that the sinners in hell are deprived of God's love. Love is a child of the knowledge of truth, and is unquestionably given commonly to all. But love's power acts in two ways: it torments sinners, while at the same time it delights those who have lived in accord with it" Heaven and hell are both in the "presence" of God and all souls are "there".
“The Transubstantiation is how the Catholic Church explains the Real Presence in terms of rational philosophy.”
Rather like the rationalizing of the Incarnation we saw earlier on this thread, Alex. I don’t accept the rationalizations at any level. I even think, frankly, that they are unhelpful, but then again I don’t need those explanations. Mystery is mystery.
“Our beliefs don’t differ on the matter, our ways of talking about them differ.”
Yes, they differ profoundly but to the extent that the words can be separated from the belief, you are likely correct. The ramifications of ways we talk about the Eucharist, however, are broad.
For your information, Mark, Pope John Paul II asserted this orthodox teaching of the Church when he said emphatically that heaven and hell are not physical "places" but conditions of the souls.
So true. Just think of the filioque fallout.
I think this is inherit with many Christians. We try to conform miracles around science. Thus we try to explain the parting of the Red Sea with great gust of wind or tidal experiences, the star of Bethlehem as something we can rationalize astrologically, or the feeding of 5,000 with everyone breaking out their own secret supplies. A miracle is simply a miracle and there is no way to explain it except to say that it's God intervention.
Absolutely. I am always amazed when some people try to "explain" the talking donkey in the Old Testament! Or the Incarnation, or Resurrection for that matter!
Mysteries, wheter physical or not, cannot be explained. Those who think otherwise can "expalin" why gravity exists! And while gravity does not require an act of faith, it is still a mystery that defies logical explanation.
Very good,and very Orthodox, HD!
Amen. "Intervention" to our temporal sensibilities. In actuality, a miracle is God's predestined purpose ordained from before the foundation of the world which makes the notion of "miracle" that much sweeter and more coherent. God's individual, specific benevolence to each of us personally was always part of His design.
Along these lines I wanted to mention a wonderful movie we saw recently which has already been out in theaters for a couple of months -- the Coen brothers' "A Simple Man."
I'm amazed at how the secular press has completely missed the point of this thoroughly theological film. The Coens are my favorite film-makers and this movie stands with the best of their efforts. As with most of their films, it's a puzzle which deepens and clarifies with time, and really takes off after a second viewing. It's a kind of retelling of the story of Job, but with an altogether different outcome. It's as if they wanted to tell a Biblical story, but not a sappy story. So they told it from the negative rather than the positive. IMO it's brilliant.
I've always wondered how the Coens seemed to be influenced in an almost covert Christian manner, considering "Raising Arizona" and "O, Brother, Where Art Thou." It turns out Joel Coen's wife, the actress Frances McDormand, is the daughter of a Disciple of Christ minister. Maybe this explains some of the Scriptural moorings found in so many of the Coens' movies.
Or maybe not. Who knows? I recommend this film and would enjoy hearing what any of you think about it.
The context of the passage is the question of table fellowship and the hypocrisy of the church ritually symbolizing their unity in eating the bread while their praxis was social division. It was not a theological teaching; just a practical remonstrance to a chaotic church.
From Paul's Jewish tradition, he looked at communion as he did the Passover feast. Both symbolized freedom from bondage. The lamb of the first Passover did not mysteriously become the lamb of each celebration and the Lamb of the first Lord's Supper did not mysteriously become the bread of each communion celebration. Both continuous celebrations actualize the first in that the celebrants relive the first celebrations.
“Protestant desacralized theology”
There is no “Protestant desacralized theology”. We believe just as Jesus promised that where two or three are gathered together in His name there He is in the midst of them.
Which is why, incidentally, an Orthodox priest cannot chant a Divine Liturgy all alone.
How are things up in the tropical climate in the State Of Maine?
Woke up this morning to 18 degrees and don’t see much movement for a couple of days.
Weren't you the one who mentioned the genetic part of Jewishness??? My friends are Jewish by race and Christian in their faith. You are not correct in defining Messianic Jews as modern-day Pharisees who are looking for the Messiah to come one day. They are people who were born Jewish (race and religion) and have converted to Chrisianity from Judaism. They believe that Jesus Christ (Yeshua Hamashiach) is the true Messiah. There are several on FR that post from time to time. Ask them.
As far as a Muslim becoming a Jew or Christian, of course they couldn't because Muslim is a Religion not a race. Can an Arab be Muslim or Jewish or Christian? Yes. See the diff?
Faith and reason are complementary. There are indeed areas where the rational mind ceases to help, but even so the rational mind can lay out such boundaries and allow for argument this side of the boundary. For example, I can rationally point out the validity of the Catholic understanding of the Sacraments without being able to rationally explain the Sacraments themselves. I can do so based on indisputable facts that certain verses happen to be in the scripture we all (maybe you being an exception) consider God-breathed and inerrant, and on facts of history.
I would not use this word. There are certain scriptures, certain practices, and certain theology. They happen to be facts: I mean, it is a fact that Luke 1 is written the way it is, or that we have certain prayers and hymns connected to the Advent season, and we have the writings, for example, of St. Athanasius on the Incarnation. We can therefore rationally discuss those on the factual and logical basis. It does not mean we do violence to the ineffable nature of the mysteries themselves by "rationalizing" them.
I agree completely. However, explaining the miracle of the Real Presence in terms of substance and appearance is not the same as explaining the parting of the Red Sea, etc. with natural phenomena. When Aquinas "explains" the Real Presence he is not demystifying the mystery at all. In fact, he points out that we have two mysteries on our hands: that Christ bodily abides in us and we in im through the Eucharist, and that the substance and the appearance of the Host separate upon consecration contrary to the natural laws.
One way to destructively explain the Eucharist would be to reduce it to an act of faith and spiritual presence or even act of remembering, with the Host being a symbolic focal point. Now that is exactly like explaining the parting of the seas with tidal effects.
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