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To: kosta50; annalex; Mr Rogers; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; the_conscience; boatbums; blue-duncan
I think one of the major errors encountered on the religion forum is a miracle treated as a "rational" event.

I think this is inherit with many Christians. We try to conform miracles around science. Thus we try to explain the parting of the Red Sea with great gust of wind or tidal experiences, the star of Bethlehem as something we can rationalize astrologically, or the feeding of 5,000 with everyone breaking out their own secret supplies. A miracle is simply a miracle and there is no way to explain it except to say that it's God intervention.

1,370 posted on 12/11/2009 5:17:13 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; annalex; Mr Rogers; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; the_conscience; boatbums; blue-duncan

Absolutely. I am always amazed when some people try to "explain" the talking donkey in the Old Testament! Or the Incarnation, or Resurrection for that matter!

Mysteries, wheter physical or not, cannot be explained. Those who think otherwise can "expalin" why gravity exists! And while gravity does not require an act of faith, it is still a mystery that defies logical explanation.

1,371 posted on 12/11/2009 5:34:24 AM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up -- the truth is all around you)
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To: HarleyD

Very good,and very Orthodox, HD!


1,372 posted on 12/11/2009 6:12:54 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: HarleyD; kosta50; annalex; Mr Rogers; wmfights; the_conscience; boatbums; blue-duncan; RnMomof7; ...
A miracle is simply a miracle and there is no way to explain it except to say that it's God intervention.

Amen. "Intervention" to our temporal sensibilities. In actuality, a miracle is God's predestined purpose ordained from before the foundation of the world which makes the notion of "miracle" that much sweeter and more coherent. God's individual, specific benevolence to each of us personally was always part of His design.

Along these lines I wanted to mention a wonderful movie we saw recently which has already been out in theaters for a couple of months -- the Coen brothers' "A Simple Man."

I'm amazed at how the secular press has completely missed the point of this thoroughly theological film. The Coens are my favorite film-makers and this movie stands with the best of their efforts. As with most of their films, it's a puzzle which deepens and clarifies with time, and really takes off after a second viewing. It's a kind of retelling of the story of Job, but with an altogether different outcome. It's as if they wanted to tell a Biblical story, but not a sappy story. So they told it from the negative rather than the positive. IMO it's brilliant.

I've always wondered how the Coens seemed to be influenced in an almost covert Christian manner, considering "Raising Arizona" and "O, Brother, Where Art Thou." It turns out Joel Coen's wife, the actress Frances McDormand, is the daughter of a Disciple of Christ minister. Maybe this explains some of the Scriptural moorings found in so many of the Coens' movies.

Or maybe not. Who knows? I recommend this film and would enjoy hearing what any of you think about it.

1,373 posted on 12/11/2009 10:49:24 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: HarleyD; kosta50; annalex; Mr Rogers; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; the_conscience; boatbums; ...
A miracle is simply a miracle and there is no way to explain it except to say that it's God intervention

I agree completely. However, explaining the miracle of the Real Presence in terms of substance and appearance is not the same as explaining the parting of the Red Sea, etc. with natural phenomena. When Aquinas "explains" the Real Presence he is not demystifying the mystery at all. In fact, he points out that we have two mysteries on our hands: that Christ bodily abides in us and we in im through the Eucharist, and that the substance and the appearance of the Host separate upon consecration contrary to the natural laws.

One way to destructively explain the Eucharist would be to reduce it to an act of faith and spiritual presence or even act of remembering, with the Host being a symbolic focal point. Now that is exactly like explaining the parting of the seas with tidal effects.

1,380 posted on 12/11/2009 3:35:07 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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