Lutheran (EL
* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.
Posted on 11/19/2009 6:25:47 PM PST by SmithL
Hosanna! Lutheran, the Lakeville mega-church that made headlines this month with its pending decision to leave the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, isn’t alone.
Community of Hope in Rosemount, which was launched in 2002 by four local congregations, ended its ELCA affiliation on Nov. 1.
According to the St. Paul Area Synod of the ELCA, those were the only of its churches to pull out as of Nov. 12.
But the action that preceded the defections – the ELCA’s August decision to allow ordination of gay clergy people living in committed relationships – continues to stir debate.
“Our church is still in the midst of the conversation,” said the Rev. Kent Claussen Gubrud, senior pastor of Christus Victor Lutheran in Apple Valley.
Per Nilsen, senior pastor of Community of Hope, said the ELCA Churchwide Assembly’s edict wasn’t the only reason his church board voted to cut ties. He said there is a lack of evangelical focus on the part of the ELCA.
In addition to the decision on gay clergy, the assembly voted to develop a process for religious blessing of committed same-sex relationships.
“For us, there was concern about the utilization of Scripture, a disconnect between an orthodox reading of Scripture and an unorthodox reading,” said Nilsen, whose church was launched by four Dakota County congregations: Prince of Peace in Burnsville, Shepherd of the Valley in Apple Valley, Easter in Eagan and Hosanna!
He said the defection will allow Community of Hope to “align ourselves with other like-minded Lutheran churches.”
“All people are welcome to worship at Community of Hope,” said Nilsen, a former associate pastor at Prince of Peace. “Fundamentally, sexuality is a gift from God and is to be expressed in a marriage relationship, and that is between one man and one woman.”
Prince of Peace’s church board concluded in September it won’t call a homosexual pastor in a committed relationship, reaffirming a 2004 position statement, according to the Rev. Jeff Marian, senior pastor. But the board won’t pursue a congregational vote to leave the ELCA.
“I have no intention of having a vote over this issue of whether we’re staying in the ELCA or not because I have no interest in creating a culture of winners and losers,” Marian said.
But the ELCA’s decision has roiled membership a bit. Marian estimates that 50 to 75 families have left Prince of Peace, a south suburban mainstay with more than 4,000 families.
“The people who have left the congregation are people who feel that by conscience, they cannot be connected to a congregation that is connected to a denomination that has affirmed the decisions that they did in August,” Marian said. “What I have seen is that we have gained as many people as we’ve lost. I call it the great reshuffling of the deck.”
Views on the ELCA action differ even among the pastoral staff, said Marian, who recently concluded a Sunday-night series of church forums on sexuality.
“I believe that the larger witness of the church is not what we believe on this issue, but how we live together through it,” Marian said. “I think the world’s looking in and saying, ‘I want to know how the Christians live together when they don’t agree.’ ”
The senior pastor at Easter Lutheran in Eagan finds the controversy a distraction.
“My passion is the Gospel and doing mission and ministry in the name of Jesus and caring for people in the community who need food, who need help, caring for people globally,” said the Rev. Jim Borgschatz, who has led the 1,200-household church since 1973. “There’s lots of folks who share those values. Then along comes this other issue and it chops the church up and diminishes our ability to do those other things. And I resent that, frankly.”
Borgschatz said only one family has left the church over the controversy. For church members who want to debate sexuality issues, opportunities exist, he said.
“I said we’re not taking a vote” on whether to leave the ELCA, he said. “But we have had conversations. We have had classes. We have had dialogues. There’s been a number of opportunities. It’s just that we haven’t tried to promote it in a worship setting.”
“What I have seen is that we have gained as many people as we’ve lost. I call it the great reshuffling of the deck.”Reshuffling, yeah, that's the ticket.
It is always interesting to see Gospel reductionism at work. We just want to preach the Gospel, but don’t worry about that other stuff in the Bible. It is the approach that I want Jesus’ blessings, but I don’t want Jesus. The Jesus that the ELCA wants is not the Jesus of the Bible. The Jesus of the Bible said that we are to teach ALL that he commanded, not just the parts we like.
They are forgetting that the founder of the Lutheran Church, left the Catholic church after he tried to correct systemic corruption. It would be in the best tradition of Martin for all faithful Lutherans to leave the ELCA. I am.
I submit reasonable scholarship must conclude Christian faith cannot advocate homosexual marriage. The entire Bible, in speaking of the character, identity, and purpose of God, continuously addresses the issue of homosexual behavior. The scriptures say that in addition to creating all things, God created a single institution, which was marriage between a man and woman as the earthy manifestation of the oneness relationship He seeks with all human beings.
Throughout the Bible He is spoken of as masculine, and all humans become feminine in relation to Him; become the Bride of Christ. To restore relationship lost in Eden, God sent Christ to die for all human sins, but people must repent of, reject all their sins. To pursue sexual sin including fornication, adultery, or homosexual behavior is to reject His identity and His character, and therefore repudiate His gift of salvation enabling relationship with Him..
In Him absolute righteousness and absolute love achieves perfect justice. The scriptures provide no prescription for this problem, but pose a moral paradox requiring one to come before Him. His solution compromises neither His righteousness, nor His unconditional love in guiding each person who struggles through a fallen world, and lives with a fallen nature
* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.
The frog says, "Boiling water? What boiling water?"
This church, albeit without its liberal pastor, is separating.
Prince of Peace’s church board concluded in September it won’t call a homosexual pastor in a committed relationship, reaffirming a 2004 position statement, according to the Rev. Jeff Marian, senior pastor. But the board won’t pursue a congregational vote to leave the ELCA. “I have no intention of having a vote over this issue of whether we’re staying in the ELCA or not because I have no interest in creating a culture of winners and losers,” Marian said.
This is a lay decision not one for the clergy. I can't imagine a Lutheran congregation that would bow to their pastor over an issue of this importance.
In the end, most ELCA churches will be empty shells.
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