Posted on 11/18/2009 3:46:29 PM PST by SmithL
NEW BRIGHTON, Minn. – The split over gay clergy within the country's largest Lutheran denomination has prompted a conservative faction to begin forming a new Lutheran church body separate from the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.
Leaders of Lutheran CORE said Wednesday that a working group would immediately begin drafting a constitution and taking other steps to form the denomination, with hopes to have it off the ground by next August.
"There are many people within the ELCA who are very unhappy with what has happened," said the Rev. Paull Spring, chairman of Lutheran CORE and a retired ELCA bishop from State College, Pa.
At its annual convention in Minneapolis in August, ELCA delegates voted to lift a ban that had prohibited sexually active gay and lesbian pastors from serving as clergy.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
It’s relevant to their calling if they are living in a sexual relationship outside of marriage, just as it would be if a heterosexual pastor was living with a person of the opposite sex outside of marriage. One can’t openly break one of the ten commandments and still legitimately call themselves a pastor. But if your larger point is that the reality of their mental condition is separate from taking action on that abnormality, then I agree.
A little background: I was raised Catholic. However, I entered an orphanage at age 6. It had quasi-religious services and used the St. James version of the Bible. As I grew older I increasingly became skeptical of organized religion. I married a Lutheran woman. The children were brought up in that religious tradition. It was during my child rearing years that my disenchantment with oganized religion became most accute—at least in so far as the Catholic and Lutheran Churches were concerned. As a parent I needed the Church (either Catholic or Lutheran) to reinforce what my wife and I were teaching at home. And I needed them to be relevant. They were absent. I needed them to talk about drugs, premarital sex and what is right or wrong. Instead, I got non-judgementalism and silence.
My point is that I’m no theologian and I’m certainly not a student of the Bible. So, the conclusions and thoughts I have about religion are really based on my own life experience as well as my early religious education. Whatever religious philosophy I have are, for the most part, rooted in the Ten Commandments, what has stayed with me about what Jesus taught and the Golden Rules.
Jesus’ constant teaching and practicing forgiveness speaks for itself. The “casting the first stone” challenge made a huge impression on me as a child and remains a guide to my behavior today. Earler I complained about the nonjudgementalism nonsense that appeared in Christian churhes in the ‘70s. This does not conflict with my belief in forgiveness. I can observe bad behavior and judge it for what it is. But I can also forgive.
I guess that’s why the Golden Rule entreating people to treat others as they would like to be treated, distilled the “forgiveness” concept down to a few very easily understood words.
Why can’t the ELCA CORE join with the LCMS and the AALC? That would create a unified orthodox Lutheran
I was a member of ELCA churches, 1989-2008. In 2008, I joined an LCMS church, because I wanted to know that my church wanted to obey the Bible, concerning homosexuality. I heard that, in March 2008, the ELCA Taskforce on Sexuality reccommended that the ELCA not ordain gays or hold gay weddings. I thought that was great news, and I joined an ELCA church, in Nov. 2008. If I knew, a year ago, what would happen, during this year’s CWA, I would have remained in an LCMS church.
Woman’s ordination.
“But I don’t understand why it’s important for me to know their sexual preference. “
Because homosexuality is a sin, plain and simple. Openly adulterous men should not be pastors either. Or men that make their living stealing money, etc, etc.
I am not familiar enough with the AALC “inside baseball” to know why then ended up like they did.
http://www.taalc.org/FAQ/AALCOrdination.html
It is a very odd thing at times. The bible is pretty clear on who can be ordained, but if you say that to many of the remnants fleeing the ELCA, you will be called “sexists!”.
I am not even comfortable with a divorced man being a pastor,( I Timothy) let along a women. I get plenty of flack for both views.
Yes, sorry - I wouldn’t expect you to know the ins-and-outs of them. God Bless you and the LCMS — keep the faith strong and orthodox!
Sounds exactly like what the scumbag politicians have done to the US Constitution.
Keep yer queers, un-church.
Women's ordination, plus, on the east coast (former Lutheran Church in America-LCA-- territory) there is a very high regard for the office of Bishop.
Although Bishops are elected for six year terms, I know of one Synod where the retired LCA Bishop of the former LCA Synod is still introduced at Synod events as "Bishop McCarney", as are the two retired Bishops of that ELCA Synod. The first retired Bishop was given the title "Bishop Emeritus" even though there is no provision for such a title in any Constitutions!
The former LCA folk need something with a stronger office of the episcopacy than what LCMS, AALC, or LCMC can offer.
Perhaps I did not make myself clear. I would expect a homosexual pastor who has been “Called” to refrain from homosexual acts. However, let’s be real here. Any clergy—including heteros—can and do sin.
My point is that as long as it is not known, the transgression is between the sinner and God. Moreover, as long as a homosexual pastor, priest or whatever teaches and that marriage is a union of a man and a woman and that homosexual ACTS are sinful, I don’t care if he/she is otherwise defective.
Sorry, but I find that impossible. Someone entrenched in that kind of of sin cannot have a true calling to be a pastor.
That person would have to have that sin removed from their life before they could be called.
If I may speak very directly to some of the concerns you have raised - this idea of being non-judgmental is extra biblical. Christians are instructed to be discerning. We are not supposed to see sin and ignore it based on “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. There is a lot more to that story that I will not get into now. The lesson is not to ignore sin, but to deal with the sinner with compassion and understanding. The goal is not punishment, but the restoration of the sinners relationship with God. Perhaps you remember what Jesus said to that woman after He spared her from death: “go and sin no more”.
The churches were wrong to not provide you with the proper scriptural teaching. It should have been coming from the pulpit and from the church leadership. But I will tell you now, straight up, that the same mindset that gave you a warped and gutless church then is the mindset that ordains gays now as if it is the correct “non-judgmental” thing to do.
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