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Posted on 10/30/2009 9:01:19 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
If I may chime in here: Bottom line: Masonry is NOT nor does it pretend to be a religion. Pure and simple. There is no promised path to salvation, no desire to proselytize anyone. Masonry is simply a fraternal organization.
As to the RCC vs. Masonry: I suspect that has as much as anything to do with the fact that many Masons of that day were supporters of the Protestant Reformation.
“it seems obvious that generalizing about Freemasonry is a tricky path.”
That would be correct. It’s a world-wide fraternity, with inherantly local control.
For example, much is made on FreeRepublic of a theoretical Muslim Fraternity Lodge. This is theoretically possible.
But each lodge votes on who can be a member (even if transferred), and the possibility or desire of a muslim to attend lodge at a lodge filled with Baptists is slim, as is the chance said member would be accepted.
Similarly, I am a fundamentalist Christian, and I would never sit in a lodge in Saudi Arabia that held the Koran up as the “Great Light in Masonry.”
But would I help a muslim freemason as part of my fraternal duty? Sure. I took an oath to do so, and my observance of my oath, as Christian, may lead this theoretical muslim to Christ.
Additionally - his article is full of garbage and lies of what he WISHES to believe about the fraternity. Below is my response that I wrote to him personally and have posted elsewhere about the web. For the record, I am a practicing catholic...always have been, didn't do my confirmation today (coincidently) BY the Bishop while I was wearing my Masonic ring.
I found this article to be somewhat harsh with non-factual points and statements, in my eyes, not befitting someone representing the Church. As a practicing Catholic and Freemason I am dismayed by the information here where Father Beck conveys things regarding the Fraternity that just aren't true and yet used as condemnation of my membership.
First of all, the Grand Orient of Freemasons are not part of the global Free and Accepted Masons nor recognized as such in anyway. Anything pertaining to them is inconsequential.
“The reasons for our teaching, expounded in teaching from many popes since the 18th century, are theological. In the first place, Freemasonry is a naturalistic religion. Its rituals and constitutions present the member as a man who is able to advance towards enlightenment through his own efforts “
This is incorrect, and a well known falsehood told about the fraternity. Freemasonry is not a religion but welcomes any man OF any religion. We endeavor to DO good works but in NO WAY promise salvation through them or the lodge. We are to use our faith as a guide to heaven. I, as a Catholic seek entry through Jesus Christ the Son given to us by God the Father by way of the Holy Spirit. A brother in the fraternity of a different religion may have other beliefs in his path to salvation but we accept and respect each other’s belief and work together to help each other and the community around us despite these differences in faith.
“Second, the prayers in its rituals specifically exclude reference to Our Lord. They are often prayers of Christian origin which have been vandalised.” (it's vandalized by the way).
This is, in part, True. As noted, we are men of many faiths and therefore do not specifically name Jesus in Lodge nor would someone of another name their deity or savior by name. We instead use a universal name of God, or the Grand Architect that we may still open and close our Lodge and workings in the name of Him. Make no mistake, our prayers go to whom we Believe. Mine, as noted above go to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Vandalized is a terrible word to use here as it's untrue. No prayers are altered in anyway from the Book.
“Third, the oaths required in the initiation rites require the new Mason to promise to keep secret the organisation’s rituals, even though he does not at that point know what they are. These oaths are what Christian moral theologians call “vain” - they are not acceptable and cannot bind the person making them, even if they are done in the name of God. This is the problem with the oaths, not (as is sometimes claimed) the dire penalties which used to be referred to in the rituals” (it's organization's by the way)
The oaths are no different than those made in any other organization, including the Knights of Columbus (totally acceptable to the Church), government, nor to individuals everyone makes to each other throughout their lives.
“The “preferential option for the poor” would not find a place in the lodge. One could also point to the exclusion of women from lodge membership and the strain placed on many marriages by the commitments demanded of Freemasons: in spite of claiming to be a “system of morality” infidelity and adultery seem often to be viewed with some indulgence.”
First of all, men from all walks of life are admitted regardless of financial background. The exclusion of women is simple. It's a FRATERNITY. The Knights of Columbus don't accept women in either I believe. The Fraternity of Freemasonry explicitly informs it's members their family, job and faith come first. The claims of infidelity and adultery prevalence are an outright lie and I am ashamed for Father Beck's for making such a statement.
“It is important that Catholics rest their challenge to Freemasonry on the clear theological arguments which I have advanced and that we are well-informed about the subject: “
This is very true however, Father Beck has failed in practicing this very statement.
In closing, this entire article is non-factual and biased to what the Father has chosen to believe of the Fraternity. I save “faith” for God, when it comes tangible matters such as this I reserve fact for my judgments.
“Three of the officers in the local lodge are also Knights of Columbus.”
“Is the bishop aware of this? Do the Knights know? One of the reasons for the founding of the K of C, of course, was to give Catholic men a fraternal organization that would not conflict with Catholic principles.”
Funny you say that considering EVERYTHING that Father Ashley Beck says is a problem with Freemasonry is ALSO something done by the KoC. Apparently that’s OK though.
“Three of the officers in the local lodge are also Knights of Columbus.”
“Is the bishop aware of this? Do the Knights know? One of the reasons for the founding of the K of C, of course, was to give Catholic men a fraternal organization that would not conflict with Catholic principles.”
Funny you say that considering EVERYTHING that Father Ashley Beck(the actual author of Alex’s stolen post) says is a problem with Freemasonry is ALSO something done by the KoC. Apparently that’s OK though.
Celestial Lodge Above is generically referring to Heaven. The same way we may say “Grand Architect of the Universe” as a universal term for God.
See - as stated and easily researched, to be a Mason one must believe in a higher power. See as we accept a man OF any faith, we endeavor to do improve ourselves, eachother and the world around despite our differences in faith, religion, nationality, race or political affiliation.
What other organization can make such a claim?
So what brings you to this two-year-dead thread, considering that you hadn't posted anything in three years up until today?
Happened to see the article pop up somewhere else and decided to a search. Wahlah - I found your “post”. Cool discussion...it has pointed out all of the garbage referred to Beck has noted as well. It’s silliness.
PS...A couple of typos and echos in my posts above. My apologies. (one of which was I DID have my Confirmation today.)
The crux of the argument was whether Masonry was a religion or held certain religious beliefs. I think you are supporting the side that says it is or does.
See as we accept a man OF any faith
But there must be some faith - in a higher power, God.
I think Masonry also teaches that all faiths are equal or the same in value - it's up to the individual. This is contrary to Catholic teaching, and part of the reason one cannot be a Mason and in the Church (except illicitly of course).
This isn't meant as a slam to any particular Mason, but an explanation of the whats and whys as far as the Catholic Church and Masonry. One can and must choose if the choice occurs.
What other organization can make such a claim?
As far as religious institutions, the only one that comes to mind is Universal Unitarianism, though last I looked, atheist and agnostics were welcomed - which wouldn't be the case for Freemasonry.
Thanks very much for your courteous reply.
No, Masonry doesn’t teach anything about anyone’s Faith. As has been stated, you must believe in a higher power to be a member because without that faith we believe you cannot seriously undertake the Fraternities obligations and core tenants, that of Friendship, Morality and Brotherly Love.
There is no teaching of any equality of Faith, the same way there is no path to salvation in the Fraternity. Freemasonry encourages your activity and Faith in YOUR religion whatever that religion may be. In a Lodge containing a large diverse group of Brothers of different religions there may be more than one holy book on the alter that they may use their book as their “rule and guide to faith”
And?
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.
The reason this doesn't make sense to you is that you're a hater and your attacks are based only in half-truths and conjecture. You've not taken the time to understand your opponent which qualifies you at best as ill-informed.Nope. Wrong. Try again.
Information at the link contradicts your previous post. Do I need to cut and paste portions from there or other Freemason sites?
http://www.aasrvalleyofjax.org/nineteenth_degree.htm
http://32nddegreemasons.org/index.php/what-is-the-scottish-rite/the-degrees/4th-32nd-degrees/
Honestly, yeah. If you have something in there you want to cut and paste, please do. I took a glance at it and I don’t see the contradictions you are referring to.
If you are insinuating that we, as Freemasons, endeavor to improve ourselves and live a good life then you are right. If you are insinuating that we endeavor to look to God establish what our right path in life is to live eternally in His glory, then again you are right.
What you don’t seem to understand is that Freemasonry doesn’t teach us about God, His lessons or how to achieve salvation. We encourage our Faith in God. We work to be good and moral men with men from all walks/faiths of life.
It’s so interesting that people have a problem with that.
If you're receiving Eucharist being a Freemason you're in a state of grave sin and are guilty of sacrilege
Freemasonry has been condemned in Papal bull since 1738 and reinforced further by Cardinal Ratzinger in 1983.
You're calling Christ a liar if you receive Eucharist and are no different than those who advocate abortion and do the same
Go to confession and quit the lodge,than you can say you're a practicing catholic
If you have something in there you want to cut and paste, please do.
Below, in the blockquotes, is material from the previous links.
I want to emphasize that I'm not criticizing the value or teaching, morals, principles, etc. of Freemasonry. What I am pointing out is certain contradictions, particularly as seeming blindness to the religious/spiritual aspects. E.g.:
There is no teaching of any equality of Faith, the same way there is no path to salvation in the Fraternity.
29° Knight of St. Andrew. This degree emphasizes the Masonic teachings of equality and toleration. We are reminded that no one man, no one Church, no one religion, has a monopoly of truth; that while we must be true and faithful to our own convictions, we must respect the opinions of others.No, Masonry doesn’t teach anything about anyone’s Faith.…The great lesson of this degree is that life, when properly, is but a bridge to eternal life.
These truths teach morals, religious and philosophical understandings. This degree helps one to comprehend Deity, the forces of nature and good and evil. Its triangular shape relates to the "fourth great light, which reminds us of the Deity and his attributes".Various other examples of the religious aspect:This degree attempts to explain the conceptualities of celestial purity and the eternal soul of man.
18° Knight of the Rose Croix of H.R.D.M. The lessons taught in this degree are that man must have a new Temple in his heart where God is worshipped in spirit and in truth and that he must have a new law of love which all men everywhere may understand and practice. This degree affirms the broad principles of universality and tolerance.
In this degree we explore for "the rewards of the trinity of Gods attributes - wisdom or intelligence, force or strength, harmony or beauty". The apron is scarlet, bordered in white, with a green triangle (point-down) in the center. In the triangle are the initials of force, wisdom and harmony, and a flaming heart of gold with the initials I.H.S. (Jesus Hominum Salvator or Imperium, Harmonia, Sapientia).
Freemasonry is a compelling and conquering spiritual force, and the reasons are revealed in the Scottish Rite Degrees. Scottish Freemasonry is the foe of intolerance, fanaticism, and superstition. It battles every form of racial and sectarian prejudice and bigotry. It is a mighty exponent of freedom in thought, religion, and government. Thus, the Scottish Rite is a rite of instruction. It interprets the symbols and allegories of Masonry in the light of history and philosophy using the words of the supreme prophets of humanity, ceremonies of the great religions of the world, and significant episodes from history to point the moral and adorn the tale……The Apocalypse, indeed, is a book as obscure as the Sohar.
It is written hieroglyphically with numbers and images; and the Apostle often appeals to the intelligence of the Initiated. “Let him who hath knowledge, understand! let him who understands, calculate!” he often says, after an allegory or the mention of a number. Saint John, the favorite Apostle, and the Depositary of all the Secrets of the Saviour, therefore did not write to be understood by the multitude.
The Sephar Yezirah, the Sohar, and the Apocalypse are the completest embodiments of Occultism. They contain more meanings than words; their expressions are figurative as poetry and exact as numbers…
My Priest knows I am a Mason, I was confirmed by the Bishop while wearing my Masonic ring.
Judge not, my friend, for it is not for you to decide. The Lord knows my heart and if I am in grave sin or not.
I am faithful, but I also recognize the RCC for having MANY faults. Lest you forget the very bloody and power hungry history it has. Or possibly when Pope XYZ (can’t recall his name off the top of my head) decreed that no one but Catholics can reach salvation. I can tell the difference between sin and political silliness.
I HIGHLY doubt that you follow every decree to the letter that has been laid down over the years. And yet I’m sure you use good judgment and are a right with God. Judge not.
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