Posted on 09/13/2009 11:48:38 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
I'll stand right with you, Quix, albeit somewhat less sarcastically. You and TC have some history, I'll take it. :)
Great post. The Word of God will *not* come back to Him empty. Not one little bit of it.
Wow, This is one of those things I have heard about for years but never pondered, questioned or wondered about. Does this idea come from Scripture in any way? Is it just tradition?
Good points.
However, the Temple pieces are already made. I’ve repeatedly read reports that it could be put together in less than 90 days IIRC.
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
AMEN! AMEN!
THANKS.
GOD HAS SAID HE WILL return the hearts of the fathers to the children and vice versa . . . else He’d have to smite the earth with a curse.
I believe he will manage the healing between parents and children . . . of many . . . of earnest believers . . .
we shall see who else.
Sure.
Which level of the ping list
“A” least frequent but can be frequent if lots going on.
B, C in between
“D” most frequent about all I find interesting.
Don’t have that link handy. You could probably find it with a search on Jewish Temple and maybe Muslim
Well put.
I actually have a fair amount of affection for individuals even who seem to be rabidly and even demonically in opposition to me and my perspectives.
I have no quarter with the REPLACEMENTARIAN et al perspective etc. I consider it demonic and deadly.
I will assault it and ridicule it and every allegiance to it up one side and down the other as I’m convinced it’s from the pit of hell and useful to the enemy in causing folks to give up on God and land in hell.
Hope that’s clearer.
Yeah, some have personally assaulted horrifically me for years hereon. At this point, I’d miss it if she/they didn’t. Something would be missing in the landscape. LOL.
I have to review your points and get back to you later.
In Rev. 14 we see the one hundred and forty for thousand with Christ in the heavenly Mount Zion (cf. Heb. 12:22). They are worshiping the Lamb. We are told, “They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders;”. This description harkens back to Rev. 7 where the angels, and elders, and four living creatures are around the throne in heaven.
The fact is there are no verses that describe the activities of the one hundred and forty four thousand as “bring[ing] Israel back to Jehovah.” I’m afraid that is merely an unsupported theory of some futurists that you have adopted.
There is no solid biblical argument to support the notion that modern Israel is “the tribes of Judah”. There are many texts that demonstrate secular Israel is not biblical Israel.
If you can prove such from the Word of God, I’d be interested in the case you can make.
Non sequitur. You have not explained what Luke 21 means by including the phrase “and all the trees.” The fact is the “fig tree” in the Olivet Discourse does not match the alleged end-times Israel of futurism.
Oh, and by the way, Synagogue and Church mean the exact same thing.
Non sequitur.
However, don’t be one of those folks who confuses their interpretation of the Word of God with the Word of God itself. A lot of that is evidenced in this forum when folks just assume that everyone believes the same things they do about, for example, modern Israel as the fulfillment of prophecy. That is an idea built on a house of cards, but lots of folks don’t see that. They think it is the Word of God, and when they are challenged they get a bit bent out of shape and resort to childish behavior like name calling.
You seem to like that term a lot. Here is the definition:
Function: noun Etymology: Latin, it does not follow Date: 1540 1 : an inference that does not follow from the premises; specifically : a fallacy resulting from a simple conversion of a universal affirmative proposition or from the transposition of a condition and its consequent 2 : a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously said.
You, my friend, are ignoring the obvious analogy throughout scripture where Israel is called among other things: the fig tree, the branches of the vine, the olive tree. Usually when an analogy is made, its meaning stays consistent throughout. The two olive trees referring to the two witnesses is also an example.
This “futurist” view that is assumed I just swallowed whole without thinking, studying, researching, etc. is insulting to me and seems like a “cop-out” on your part.
Why not turn this around for a change and let me ask you, who do you think the 144,000 are? What do you think Revelation chapters 4, 7, 11, 14, and 21 speak to? Or better yet, what have you been TOLD they mean?
Kinda makes you wonder what Bible these folks are a-readin’ doesn’t it?
But the Bible does not say that at all. As hard as you try, you cannot find one verse that says anything about the one hundred and forty four thousand evangelizing Israel (or however you wish to state it).
they will be martyred and the names of the twelve tribes of Israel (Jacob) will be memorialized in the New Jerusalem.
Where exactly does it say they will be martyred? Another futurist claim?
This “futurist” view that is assumed I just swallowed whole without thinking, studying, researching, etc. is insulting to me and seems like a “cop-out” on your part.
It may seem like a "cop out" but you are the one that is having a hard time finding Scripture to back up your claims. I'm just pointing that out. The ideas your are stating are well-known futurist claims. I must assume you are merely parroting what you have been told by others.
If study, research, etc were the basis for your theories, it should be easy for you to back up these ideas plainly and clearly from the Bible. That is what you have not done.
For example, in chapter 14 of Revelation we see the one hundred and forty four thousand with Christ in heavenly Mount Zion. They are not on the earth. They are worshiping the Lamb around the throne with the angels, elders, and four living creature. This plainly cannot be on the earth.
Why not turn this around for a change and let me ask you, who do you think the 144,000 are? What do you think Revelation chapters 4, 7, 11, 14, and 21 speak to? Or better yet, what have you been TOLD they mean?
Sure. Will you admit that your views on the one hundred and forty four thousand are not entirely from Scripture.
No, I am simply saying the the "fig tree" image in the Olivet Discourse is not a reference to futurist Israel.
Ignoring FACTS
PARTICULARLY BIBLICAL FACTS
is a major
doctrine, habit, hobby, compulsion, . . .
of REPLACEMENTARIANS, PRETERISTS, A-MILS, POST-MILS, and too many run-of-the-mils.
Perhaps you can do a better job helping him/her find the Scripture to back up his/her claims.
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