Posted on 09/13/2009 11:48:38 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
(This is an update of a study I first posted in Nov. 2003)
Those who labor to understand the nuances of the battle described in Ezekiel 38-39 quickly identify two major puzzles. One is the timing of the battle and the other is the identity of Gog, from Magog. Suffice it to say here that almost no scholar, certainly none I’m aware of, believes the battle of Ezekiel 38-39 has already taken place. Some believe it will occur just before the beginning of Daniel’s 70th Week, while others believe Ezekiel is actually describing the Battle of Armageddon, which would put it at the end of the Great Tribulation. But all place it sometime in our future.
In my opinion, there are several reasons why Ezekiel 38 can’t be part of the Armageddon scenario. First, only some nations are involved in Ezekiel 38. For example, Saudi Arabia and Western Europe are said to be on the sidelines observing and others you would expect to see, like Egypt and Jordan, are not mentioned at all, although both appear later on. But Zechariah 12:3 says that in preparation for the Battle of Armageddon all the nations of the Earth will come against Jerusalem.
Second, how is Israel going to burn the left over weapons for 7 years as Ezekiel 39:9 indicates unless there are 7 years left in which to burn them? Rev. 21:24. says the nations will walk by the light of the New Jerusalem in the Millennium, so they won’t need fuel for energy then. And then you have Ezekiel 38:11 telling us that Israel will be a peaceful and unsuspecting people when the Moslem coalition strikes. Could that be possible near the end of the Great Tribulation when all the nations are gathering to attack? I don’t think so.
But most importantly, Daniel’s 70th week can’t start until Israel is back in covenant with God and the battle of Ezekiel 38 is what causes the covenant to be re-instated. (Ezek. 39:22) Armageddon comes at the end of Daniel’s 70th week, not the beginning.
As for Gog and Magog, the first thing to note is that while Magog is listed in Genesis 10, Gog is not. The list of 70 names in Genesis 10 is often called the Table of Nations because each of the men named there was the original ancestor of an ethnic group that grew to become a nation of people. For instance, Magog was the 2nd son of Japeth, one of Noah’s three sons, and bore the children who in time became known to the ancient world as the Scythians. They lived in central Asia and are believed to be the forefathers of today’s Russians. Many historical references support this view. For example, Josephus Flavius wrote “Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, but who were by the Greeks called Scythians.” And in some ancient Arabic documents, the Great Wall of China is called the Ramparts of Gog and Magog. It was built to keep the Scythians out of China.
So while the Russian people of today are likely descended from Magog, there is no such biological connection for Gog to either Magog or any other ethnic group. There is an unrelated mention of a man named Gog, a grandson of Reuben, in 1 Chronicles 5:4 but there doesn’t seem to be any connection between him and the land of Magog either. Clearly, while Magog refers to the millions of his descendants in today’s Russia, Gog remains a single individual.
Some say he’s a king or leader, and in a real sense I think that’s true but I don’t believe he’s of the human variety. The time spanned by his three appearances in scripture make that impossible.
The first one is in the first verse of Amos 7, but you have to be reading Amos from the Septuigent translation to see it. There, Gog is identified as a king, but of a swarm of locusts. To further shroud him in mystery Proverbs 30:27 states that locusts have no king, and observers of locust swarms agree that no obvious leader directs them, as a queen would direct a hive of bees for example. The swarm of locusts led by Gog in Amos 7:1-2 was symbolic of a judgment that was to come upon the Northern Kingdom, but the Lord relented because of Amos’ intercession.
(This hint also lends insight to another appearance of locusts, by the way. I’m referring to the one in Revelation 9, where a swarm of locusts comes out of the Abyss to afflict those on Earth who lack the seal of God on their foreheads. These locusts have a king named Abaddon in the Hebrew or Appolyon in the Greek. Here again, the Proverbs passage would indicate that these locusts are of supernatural origin like the ones in Amos 7, not ordinary locusts.)
The next time Gog’s mentioned is in Ezekiel 38:1, where he is called by name as the leader of a coalition of what are now primarily Moslem nations attacking Israel. His final mention comes from the Book of Revelation where he again leads the people from Magog against the Lord’s army at the end of the Millennium (Rev. 20:8).
Even if you’re among those who place the battle of Ezekiel 38 at the end of the Great Tribulation, the span of time between Gog’s last two biblical appearances is at least 1000 years, and while I believe that some born in that era will have long life spans, there isn’t any indication that natural humans born before the Millennium begins will live to see its end. This is especially true of God’s enemies, since all surviving unbelievers are removed from Earth at the beginning of our Lord’s reign.
So I’ve come to the conclusion that Gog is a supernatural figure. The Bible clearly states that behind the human seats of government stand supernatural figures manipulating the thoughts and actions of the world’s leaders. These figures are in Satan’s employ, helping in his effort to wrest ownership of Planet Earth from its Creator. Gog is at least the supernatural figure behind the throne of Russia, and perhaps is even Satan’s counterpart to the Archangel Michael, who commands the Lord’s armies.
In Daniel 10:13 Michael is identified as one of the Lord’s chief princes who in 536 BC came to Daniel’s aid in a supernatural struggle with the Prince of Persia, a nation barely emerging on the world scene having conquered Babylon just three years earlier. At its conclusion Michael told Daniel that he’d soon be battling the Prince of Greece, a nation that didn’t even exist at the time. In Daniel 12:1 we’re told he’ll protect Israel at the end of the age. And in Rev 12:7 he’s seen leading the angelic host in a great battle in heaven when Satan is defeated there and cast down to Earth at the outset of the Great Tribulation. Michael is clearly a supernatural warrior leaping across the pages of history in defense of the Lord’s interests. It makes sense that Satan would have a military commander leading his forces as well, since everything he does seems to mirror the actions of his Creator. With his multiple mentions in Scripture and the long span of time between appearances, Gog could easily be this commander.
Only time will tell if this view is correct. But one of the great advantages of living in our day is that we won’t have long to wait till we find out. You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah. 09-12-09
I, too, believe that the bulk of the Scriptural evidence is that there are two Gog/Magog wars.
One at the end of the Millennium.
ALMIGHTY GOD
WOULD ABANDON
HIS EVERLASTING PROMISES that HE PROMISED
TO ISRAEL, THE BLOOD CHILDREN OF JACOB,
WOULD REMAIN IN FORCE as long as there were stars.
Folks could get the idea that God’s promises didn’t amount to anything dependable. That’s blasphemous heresy, to me.
Thanks for the ping!
Thanks thanks.
I have seen the plain of Megido. Truly one of the best plains for a huge battle anywhere as, I think, Napoleon stated.
I believe that the first Gog/Magog war will be before Armageddon.
I believe it will likely be before the peace treaty and before the Abomination of Desolation.
It may be a trigger for the peace treaty.
I do not believe that Gog is a fallen angel or demon though It would not rock my theology if I turned out to be wrong on that. I think it’s likely the human, though probably demoinzed ruler of Russia, at the time—operating on orders from the covert or overt AntiChrist.
I think if it were a fallen angel etc. that there would have been more evidence toward that meaning.
Just my opinion.
as a point of order, Why do you believe the prophets wouldn't know what crucifixion was? It was practiced in it's multitude forms by the Persians, Egyptians, and Assyrians... There is a law against leaving one "hanging on a tree" overnight in Leviticus or Deuteronomy... Crucifixion is well known into ancient days.
I'm with you on that one...
I somewhat agree.
However, we do NOT know, per se, WHAT PERCENT, WHAT DEGREE The Lord wanted a vision to be described
1. cryptically
2. with more details
3. fully as by a detailed experienced reporter
4. symbolically
5. symbolically and literally
6. more or less literally
7. with precise photographic literalness.
All for HIS REASONS . . . which He may or may not have said anything about.
imho, MOST END TIMES UNRubberized, true Bible prophecy is described mostly to fully literally with moderate detail . . . sometimes symbolically.
The 200 million strong army from the kings of the East is difficult for thoughtful people to wrap their minds around.
Bible scholars in past centuries assumed it was from China.
It is plausible from me that it could be China + India plus the Muslim -stans of central Asia.
Logistically . . . it seems utterly impossible to transport such a force much of anywhere--much less from China.
Yet, Scripture is quite clear that the geography will be adjusted to make way for that army.
And, folks seem to ignore the possibility that satan and his forces may have some 'transport' means, technologies . . . that would negate our currently perceived logistical problems.
I just know that WHENEVER IN THE PAST 100 YEARS PLUS . . . so called 'higher' criticism 'scholars' have insisted something in the Bible was symbolic, archeology has relentlessly proven them wrong . . . God's Biblical habit of being precisely literal has been affirmed 100's of times over and over and over and over and over.
Some months and/or years back on such a thread, the REPLACEMENTARIANS et al pontificated that the prophesied destruction of Damascus happened in A.D. 70 or some such lunacy.
That must have taken a very hung-over pile of stinking Bible mangling thinking to pretend it had any validity at all.
Scripture is very clear. Damascus will be literally utterly destroyed and never lived in again. To even pretend that one of the oldest continuously lived in cities was destroyed in 70A.D. and never lived in again . . . sounds like something from Alice's rabbit hole given UNrubberized true histories and our own viewing of videos currently from . . . Damascus.
However, the REPLACEMENTARIANS et al seem to be loathe to bother much about facts . . . whether Biblical facts or facts on the nightly news. Fascinating, that.
. . . . one of the reasons I mostly write for those with eyes to see and ears to hear . . .
I may not write with The Lord’s ways & reasons for using parables to obfuscate things from the RELIGIOUS rulers of 2000 years ago.
However, it appears that I tend to have some capacity to write in a way that leaves some folks unable to see a large red barn door 2 feet in front of their faces.
Fascinating, that.
Thanks for your kind affirmation.
Does it seem to you that the first Gog/Magog could almost be . . . any day?
Interesting points.
Thanks.
Maybe this is when Damascus is destroyed forever.
Quite plausible, to me.
Would it possibly be the Arab nations coming against Israel with nukes, etc.?
They would be joining Russia in these attacks, too.
LOL. You are trying *way* too hard to make a fool out of yourself today. At least, I hope you are trying...
Why don’t you tell the thread who you believe the two witnesses were, who’s dead bodies were seen by the whole world laying in the streets of Jerusalem, back in 70AD?
I don’t know.
I don’t have any brilliant revelation on that.
Certainly the Arabs are ready to throw whatever they can at Israel whenever they think they can get away with it.
I haven’t forgotten that I presented a fully fleshed out interpretation of Biblical prophesies.
It can be seen here: http://tiny.cc/rPSQc
You, however, have yet to reveal what *your* interpretation of the Biblical prophesies is. The truth is, you have none, you simply like to be contrary and you get a thrill from disrupting people who are talking about the Bible.
You say Biblical prophesy was fulfilled in 70AD. OK then, why don’t you tell the thread who or what you believe Wormwood was in 70AD.
They could be unlocking the launchers as we speak...
Why don’t you tell the thread who you believe the two witnesses were, who’s dead bodies were seen by the whole world laying in the streets of Jerusalem, back in 70AD
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INDEED.
Perhaps the answer will be . . .
Yogi Bear and Booboo?
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