Posted on 09/03/2009 6:57:00 AM PDT by TaxachusettsMan
Good point.
Most of the Southern clergy of all denominations were on the side of the Confederacy, and Catholics were no exception. The future first bishop of St Augustine, Bp Augustin Verot, originally from France, thought that slavery was wrong but that blacks needed paternalistic care because African culture was so different and now that they were in such a different country, they could not be expected to simply make their way on their own without the institution of slavery.
However, in theory Catholic slave owners were expected to do things like permit manumission upon the death or decision of the “owner,” permit the religious instruction and baptism of slaves, permit and encourage their marriages, allow them to own property, not separate families by selling children and parents separately, etc. These were the rules first used by the Spanish in St Augustine. There weren’t that many Catholics in the South, so this didn’t have a major impact, unfortunately.
Interestingly, after the Civil War, the Catholic dioceses adapted fairly well. Bp Verot brought a religious order to St Augustine just to teach the children of the recently freed slaves, and he was not the only bishop to be concerned about black education.
Another interesting thing is that Bp Verot went to Vatican I in 1869 primarily to urge a vote on something he considered vitally important: a rejection of the “two creations” theory. This was a theory popular in Southern Protestant circles that declared that blacks and whites had been created separately, and that blacks had been created by God to serve whites. Bp Verot gave an impassioned address about this and the need to reject it, but the problem was that most of the assembled bishops had never even heard of the theory, which seems to have been an American speciality and unknown outside of the US, and didn’t want to spend any time on it. So he went back without that decision, although he did get support for a resolution supporting the independence and value of scientific research (which was a hot topic among the bishops).
Excellent! John the Baptist - right on! He spoke the Truth no matter what it cost! These weak kneed robe wearing wusses couldn’t hold a candle to John! They do not belong in ministry - they robbed the Church of what it means to be a Christian by their example.
Your post is an interesting read. It reminds me of something I read just this morning in my Bible study:
Galatians:
Gal 2:11 When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.
Gal 2:14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, ......
Sometimes keeping the faith and defending the gospel is a difficult challenge, but God knows, and will ultimately judge, all we do, or don't do, to proclaim him and his word to the world.
>>>> I don’t think the Catholic hierarchy spoke out against slavery. <<<<
>>And we can add the Holocaust to their ‘do nothing’ list. <<
When I was in Boston in the lat 90s, the Globe ran a front-page article about how the Catholic Church had never denounced Nazism. On the back page was a picture of the Boston Globe “sixty years ago, today.” The headline screaming across the entire broadsheet was that the “Pope Condemns Twin Terrors of Totalitarianism,” that is, Stalinism and Fascism.
The fact is that while the U.S. was still turning a blind eye towards the Nazi regime, the Catholic Church was boldly insisting that men of good will must do all they could to counter the Nazis. For this stance, tens of thousands of Catholic priests and nuns were slaughtered in Central Europe.
Likewise, Catholic popes have issued several bulls and epistles regarding the inherent evil of the slavery of blacks and Amerindians. At the time, however, most Catholics in America were Northerners, who had little say in such goings on. The indentured servitude of Northern laborers often rivaled plantation slavery in cruelty; young children locked in factories for sixteen hours a day, using dangerous equipment. On many occasions, hundreds would die in fires, since they were locked in. As my uncle (who worked as a child laborer in the 1920s, losing fingers in the mill) put it, “the difference between the Northern slaves and Southern slaves was that the Southern slaves had a positive economic value; their masters used brutality to keep them in line, but at the end of the day, a dead slave was a lost investment. A dead Catholic meant nothing.”
Actually, I believe that was John Crysostom, “the Golden-Mouthed.”
In 21st century America, never trust a man with a beard.
Everyone knows that an evil twin always has the beard or goatee. ;-)
Yes, if those unbelievers are members.
You are mistaken. Chrysostom is credited with the following:
""The Road to Hell is paved with the bones of priests and monks and the skulls of bishops are the lamp posts that light the way."
More than likely Chrysostom, 344-407, modified the quote of Athanasius, 297-373.
if the Cardinal wanted to show mercy and to help the family in time of suffering, he could have had a priest say the mass at a quiet, private mass. No media, no TV, no “big stars” like Obama.
so much for his argument.
You are an idiot.
Anyone who is NOT a communist/socialist/marxist partnered up with another god deciding who should live and who should die!!!!
Interesting. I've heard of a polygenistic defense of slavery that held that Blacks weren't descended from Adam. Perhaps this is what you're talking about. Although if the "scientific research" he was promoting was evolutionism it seems to me he'd be turning around and advocating the very same thing.
I spent most of the day at a historic Civil War battlefield near where I live. That's why I haven't been online today.
O’Malley is a damn fool and should be ex-communicated from the Catholic Church. I am a catholic and now the world is a better place without Shamoo the OldsMoSub Murdering POS alleged senator stealing our good oxygen.
I for one, am glad to see that obese POS taking his well deserved dirtnap for enternity in Hell.
Molon Labe,
Just as Pope Benedict's words,to audiences and in official documents go unheeded,so did the words and sanctions of Pope Paul lll. You can find lots of information on this by Googling the title,"Sublimus Deus".
Because of holy and prescient truths that have so often come from the mouths and pens of our Popes,I double check every thing I am told by c/Catholics,religious or lay,against the Popes' words,documents and the Catholic Catechism.
I am very grateful to be Catholic because the teachings of Christ are clear,because the Church has preserved these teachings and because there is a formal structure with a visible authority figure. Finally,if for some reason I still can't figure something out,then I remember what one of the nuns said in third or fourth grade,"well,if it wasn't a miracle then it's quite a mystery". And I smile and know when I'm ready for it,He will let me understand it.
BTW I pray for the Pope every night,he needs all of our prayers in these terrible times.
Hey Cardinal...
May the good lord have mercy on your soul. Posers like you are the reason I left the Catholic church. You have no honor and no moral authority.
Resign now, and get yourself a wife while you still can. Whatever you do, don’t go around convincing yourself that your anything special!
And as an aside,Catholics and nonCatholics of any or no religion are doing a disservice to Jewish people by constantly bringing the "holocaust" into every conversation or discussion of anything related or unrelated to other peoples' sufferings and sadness.
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