The Assumption of Mary

Christian Resources ^ | William Webster

[Petronski]

Are you saying you know that man kneeling near a statue of Mary is worshiping her? How do you know that?

[woollyone]

“Mighty self righteous of you to interpret the mind of someone.
How it looks to you is not what is in a person’s heart.”

I never mentioned what you were thinking?
I merely pointed out the obvious, based upon observations, known doctrines and then colored between the lines with a bit of color commentary.

I guess you merely personalized and internalized it all.

[rjsimmon]

I always thought this referred to protestant ministers, who have not received any commission to preach the Gospel?

They have indeed received the Great Commission. Right at the end of The Gospel of Matthew:

Mat 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in [fn] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Unless one has received the laying-on-of-hands (aka Holy Orders) through apostolic succession, then one does not have any authority to preach the Gospel, it is that simple.

Incorrect. No such direction is given. In fact, Jesus told His disciples:

Luk 9:49-50 "Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us." "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."

[AnalogReigns]

“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (II Timothy 3:16, 17)

There is nothing in scripture giving similar such authority to the teachings of the very changeable and fallible body of believers in Christ...called the Church.

[Petronski]

...known doctrines...

As you posted above? Known?

ROFLMTO

[Religion Moderator]

To make it clear that it is your understanding of his understanding, you could have simply said “Based on your previous posts, ...”

[Petronski]

(II Timothy 3:16, 17) does not command exclusivity...there is no sola there.

There is nothing in scripture giving similar such authority to the teachings of the very changeable and fallible body of believers in Christ...called the Church.

There is nothing in AnalogReigns' own personal interpretation of Scripture giving similar such authority to the teachings of the very changeable and fallible body of believers in Christ.

[netmilsmom]

Unless you are a mind reader, you have no clue what that man is doing.

It is pretty self-righteous of you to say that another person is "worshiping" anything?

Then again, there is that "Bible Worship" Ask NanetteClaret about it.
She said, "It doesn’t matter what you say or how you explain it. I still believe Protestants worship the Bible. I’ve seen it with my own eyes! The open Bible is front and center on the table right below the pulpit. All worship centers around this collection of pieces of paper. Protestants always have one in their hands and never go to church without theirs. It’s all-Bible, all-the-time, and the bigger, the better. I’ve seen people put one hand on the Bible and stretch their other hand out in prayer. It sure looks to me like they think the Bible does possess intrinsic holiness, not unlike a relic. And it looks to me like they worship it"

But I don't know what's in people's hearts. And speaking of idolotry, how about that Protestant church on I-71 in Ohio?

Talk about looking like "worship"!

[Petronski]

Read you loud and clear. Willdo.

[AnalogReigns]

Please see the “Duck rule” above.

What is in the man’s heart, God will judge. As humans we by necessity must go by appearances.

[woollyone]

Yes, a lie.

Now there’s an interesting direction that we can take the discussion of the veneration of Mary to that of godhood. A lie, an apt desription indeed.

I gues that verse ;”No one is good, no, not one” pertained to everyone but Mary- the only sinless person ever...what?...born?...what?...immacualte concieved?

And if she was born sinless, imagine the ramifications!

Jesus didn’t die for her, because she was without sin.
Right?
And then what, she’s a co-equal with Jesus?
What, His sister and mother all wrapped up in one?
Wow, sounds like a lie right there!

And hey, not to far off fromthat religion that teaches the Lucifer and Jesus were actually brothers.
That too is a lie.

[netmilsmom]

>> I never mentioned what you were thinking?
I merely pointed out the obvious, based upon observations, known doctrines and then colored between the lines with a bit of color commentary.

I guess you merely personalized and internalized it all. <<

I never said “me”.
I said, “A person”

Were you talking about me?

[netmilsmom]

Well then I think it’s about time some Protestants stop that Book worship.

Looks like a duck.

[Petronski]

They have indeed received the Great Commission. Right at the end of The Gospel of Matthew:

That is a failed attempt at interception. It was not thrown to them and they did not catch it. Christ was addressing His gathered apostles and disciples, the bishops and priests of the Catholic Church.

[Martin Tell]

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Nestorian heresy:

Although the Nestorian heresy, stating that Jesus did not have both a divine and human will, there is some other, more fundamental heresey afoot here.

It's a denial of the incarnation, a denial of the unity of the divine and the human in the one person of Jesus Christ. I would classify this heresy as Gnosticism.

Christians have accepted Mary as Mother of God (Theotokas) as a matter of doctrine since the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD, so this is not some new, innovative doctrine.

As an Orthodox Christian, I believe in the Assumption of Mary, we call the feast the Dormition, but we do not accept the Immaculate Conception or even the concept of Original Sin.

Whatever is not assumed is not saved! And therefore, the Theotokas was fully human, conceived like other humans.

[AnalogReigns]

Let me repeat:

What part of:

“You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them;”*

is unclear?

*(Exodus 20:4,5 from the 10 Commandments)

[agere_contra]

Open your wallet.

Is there a picture of a loved one in there? Do you sometimes kiss that picture?

Why - says the martian of your example, come down to observe us - do you worship that person? Or do you regard the substance of the photograph itself - the paper, the printing - as worshipful?

"Ah no my Martian friend", you stammer. "I was expressing love for my wife, my baby daughter, my girlfriend. I do not worship them. Nor do I worship paper and photographic ink. Why, the very idea is absurd!"

My point is: your viewpoint on the kissing of statues to express love and devotion approximates to that of the uncomprehending Martian.

You simply assume the statue is an idol, just as a poorly-educated martian might assume your photograph in your wallet is an idol. But it isn't.

The truth is very simple. An idol is a rock or stone or some other created thing that is worshiped - that is treated as a Deity.

Catholics do not regard Mary as a Deity, and still less do they regards statues of her as Deities.

[Petronski]

Right? And then what, she’s a co-equal with Jesus? What, His sister and mother all wrapped up in one?

No no and no.

You scored nil. What does that say to you about what you know about the Catholic Church?

[rjsimmon]

What Church in Rome?

The Catholic Church in based in Vatican City, not Rome.

Ever been to Vatican City, it is completely encircled by...Rome.

I am not her arbiter, no. I simply compare what you claim she says to what she says and find you sorely wanting. I disagree. You have very little information, from me, on what I understand of the IC dogma that the Roman Catholic Church professes. You may think you know, but I have put forth very little into the discussion. What I have done, is point out where what has been put forth, is not in keeping with what the New Testament clearly spells out.

As I mentioned to another Freeper, go ahead and build your strawmen, they pose no intimidation to me.

[Petronski]

Exodus 20:2-6 is the First Commandment. Pulling 4-5 out of sequence robs them of their context.