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Childish behavior. |
Posted on 07/25/2009 2:40:04 AM PDT by Quix
The Bible says we cannot know the time of the Lord's return (Matthew 25:13). But the Scriptures make it equally clear that we can know the season of the Lord's return (1 Thessalonians 5:2-6):
"You yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night... But you brethren, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you like a thief; for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night or darkness; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober."
This passage asserts that Jesus is coming like "a thief in the night." But then it proceeds to make it clear that this will be true only for the pagan world and not for believers. His return should be no surprise to those who know Him and His Word, for they have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to give them understanding of the nature of the times.
Furthermore, the Scriptures give us signs to watch for — signs that will signal that Jesus is ready to return. The writer of the Hebrew letter referred to these signs when he proclaimed that believers should encourage one another when they see the day of judgment drawing near (Hebrews 10:25-27). Jesus also referred to the end time signs in His Olivet Discourse, given during the last week of His life (Matthew 24 and Luke 21). Speaking of a whole series of signs which He had given to His disciples, He said, "When you see all these things, recognize that He [the Son of Man — that is, Jesus] is near, right at the door" (Matthew 24:33).
A Personal Experience
Every time I think of "Signs of the Times," I am reminded of a great man of God named Elbert Peak. I had the privilege of participating with him in a Bible prophecy conference held in Orlando, Florida in the early 1990's. Mr. Peak was about 80 years old at the time.
He had been assigned the topic, "The Signs of the Times." He began his presentation by observing, "Sixty years ago when I first started preaching, you had to scratch around like a chicken to find one sign of the Lord's soon return."
He paused for a moment, and then added, "But today there are so many signs I'm no longer looking for them. Instead, I'm listening for a sound — the sound of a trumpet!"
The First Sign
One hundred years ago in 1907 there was not one single, tangible, measurable sign that indicated we were living in the season of the Lord's return. The first to appear was the Balfour Declaration which was issued by the British government on November 2, 1917.
This Declaration was prompted by the fact that during World War I the Turks sided with the Germans. Thus, when Germany lost the war, so did the Turks, and the victorious Allies decided to divide up both the German and Turkish empires.
The Turkish territories, called the Ottoman Empire, contained the ancient homeland of the Jewish people — an area the Romans had named Palestine after the last Jewish revolt in 132-135 AD.
In 1917 Palestine included all of modern day Israel and Jordan. In the scheme the Allies concocted for dividing up the German and Turkish territories, Britain was allotted Palestine, and this is what prompted the Balfour Declaration. In that document, Lord Balfour, the British Foreign Secretary, declared that it was the intention of the British government to establish in Palestine "a national home for the Jewish people."
The leading Evangelical in England at the time was F. B. Meyer. He immediately recognized the prophetic significance of the Declaration, for he was well aware that the Scriptures prophesy that the Jewish people will be regathered to their homeland in unbelief right before the return of the Messiah (Isaiah 11:11-12).
Meyer sent out a letter to the Evangelical leaders of England asking them to gather in London in December to discuss the prophetic implications of the Balfour Declaration. In that letter, he stated, "The signs of the times point toward the close of the time of the Gentiles... and the return of Jesus can be expected any moment."
Before Meyer's meeting could be convened, another momentous event occurred. On December 11, 1917 General Edmund Allenby liberated the city of Jerusalem from 400 years of Turkish rule.
There is no doubt that these events in 1917 marked the beginning of the end times because they led to the worldwide regathering of the Jewish people to their homeland and the reestablishment of their state.
Since 1917
Since the time of the Balfour Declaration, we have witnessed throughout the 20th Century the appearance of sign after sign pointing to the Lord's soon return. There are so many of these signs today, in fact, that one would have to be either biblically illiterate or spiritually blind not to realize that we are living on borrowed time.
I have personally been searching the Bible for years in an effort to identify all the signs, and it has not been an easy task to get a hold on them. That's because there are so many of them, both in the Old and New Testaments.
I have found that the best way to deal with them is to put them in categories, and in doing that, I have come up with six categories of end time signs. We will explore these catetories beginning in Part 2 of this series.
But it is pulp fiction just the same.
As long as you insist on spreading your own interpretation on the text of Scripture, rather than allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture, you will never come to the truth.
I thought the one liners belonged to us? You would do yourself a great favor by learning the scriptural basis upon which dispensationalists base their understanding of the bible rather than spouting off this drivel. You are beginning to bore me with such tripe while avoiding the straight forward scripture examples I've provided. I've given you numerous citations from the MT 24 that were not fulfilled in the slightest in AD 70. You further have failed to state if Zechariah 12—14 is a parallel to the Olivet discourse. I am at a loss to see where I am not allowing scripture to interpret scripture in these cases - whereas it appears you preterism is coloring your reading.
Really TC, the preterist position you are espousing fails upon the simple facts of history, and a flawed replacement of the nation of Israel in the end times. Should you want to review the whole scripture, prophetically Israel is promised to be redeemed in the end times - not the church. Should you wish, go verse by verse through Mt 24-25 and show the fulfillment in AD 70. Remember, the disciples asked for a semeion - sign, mark, token, a visible, unmistakable event to authenticate the prophecy.
Finally, prophecies concerning Jesus were fulfilled literally. There is no reason to believe that prophecies from the same Jesus would be fulfilled in any other manner than literally.
However, it seems that you are unable to provide a textural interpretation of those passages and rely upon an appeal to authority. I could cite the works of J. Dwight Pentecost as a counter, or Thomas Ice or many others. Kik's work is shallow and incomplete, particular the citation you chose. You ignored the other passages I cited. So do your homework and perhaps there may be something more intelligent we can talk about in the future
Ah, its the old 'generation' argument. First response is that the generation Jesus was referring to was that generation that these signs started to appear infront of (ie the parable of the fig tree), not that specific generation. Here is the response.
Preterism argues that the textual basis for interpreting prophecy as having been fulfilled in the past is Jesus’ use of the phrase “this generation” as only and always having reference to the first-century generation to whom He spoke. Futurism, by contrast, accepts some uses of “this generation” as having reference to those to whom Jesus spoke and other uses as having reference to those about whom Jesus spoke, with context being the determining factor. For example, the use of “this generation” in Matthew 23:36 is applied as an indictment (in context) to the generation of the “scribes and Pharisees” (Matthew 23:29) whose actions against Jesus demonstrate their affinity with previous persecutors of the Prophets (verses 30-35). Jesus’ then pronounces sentence with the words “all these things shall come upon this generation.” The phrase “these things” must also be interpreted in its context. In this case, the next verse (verse 37) describes “these things” as the future experience of Temple deolation. It is important to observe here that even though now historically past, “this generation” in context was a future generation at the time of its being originally spoken by Jesus and being recorded by Matthew. It was future from the perspective of the sins “this generation” (in context) would yet commit (complicity in the crucifixion) and the judgment they would receive (the Roman destruction in AD 70 (Luke 21:20-24).
Further Even though in context Jesus may refer to the future “this generation” as “you,” this is a conventional usage of language with respect to reference and does not have to ultimately apply to a present audience.12 Such usage is found in Old Testament prophetic sections. For example, Moses uses language similar to Jesus when he says “So it will be when all of these things have come upon you ...” (Deuteronomy 30:1a). Even though he is speaking to the present generation (‘you”), it is evident from the context that his words speak about a future generation that will live thousands of years later and into the eschatological period. “This generation” (the “you”) are those who will have already suffered the judgment of exile (verse 1b), captivity (verse 3), been regathered and restored (verses 4-5), and received spiritual regeneration (“circumcision of heart,” verse 6). The future sense of “this generation” in a judgment context sets a precedence for its interpretation in contexts that are both judicial and eschatological. If the desolation experienced by “this generation” in Matthew 23:36 can be understood as a future fulfillment that came some 40 years later, it should not be a problem to understood the Tribulation judgment as a future fulfillment that will come on the generation that will experience it at the end of the age. However, the difference is not simply a span of time, but the nature of that time as eschatological. For the “this generation” of Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32, “all these things” (Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 21:28) must refer contextually to the events of the “Great Tribulation,” the conclusion of “the times of the Gentiles,” the coming of Christ in glory, and the regathering and redemption of Israel, all of which are not only declared to be future by Jesus at the time of speaking (Mark 13:23), but also cast in typical eschatological language (for example, “end of the age,” “such as not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall,” “powers of the heavens will be shaken”). )Dr. Randall Price)
You see, the last part of this, Jesus' own words “such as not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall,” are played very loosy goosy by your source. While acknowledging WW2, he then discounts it. What part of EVER SHALL BE is that hard to understand?
f futurist interpreters want to insist on taking Jesus' words literally (meaning that a future tribulation is coming that will be by far the worst thing to happen in human history), then they must argue that Ezekiel, Exodus and Daniel were not meant to be taken literally while Jesus' words were.
It amazes me that Mr. Schwertley is so ignorant of dispensation interpretations. Had he honestly evaluated the use of the cited OT prophets, he would have read a different understanding. As is, he reads them through the rose colored glasses of preterism - theology driving scripture interpretation. Again, the simple phrase EVER SHALL BE is trodden under foot, making Jesus out to be a liar and false prophet.
Excellent observation (and you stole my future thunder).
I just wonder . . . when they lie down on their beds at night . . .
do their derisive dismissals of HOLY SCRIPTURE—GOD’S WORD . . .
do those derisions trouble their consciences at all . . .
. . . or are their consciences already seared as with a hot iron?
To deny the reality, validity, applicability, plain meaning of straight-forward Scripture and blame it on interpretation . . . has to be some level of deep rooted deception or rebellion or willful blindness or some such. I don’t know how to explain it any other way.
YET ANOTHER BRAZEN FALSEHOOD brought to us by the REPLACEMENTARIANS/ PRETERISTS/ A-MILS/ POST-MILS/ RUN-OF-THE-MILS and pseudo-theological-also-rans.
Perhaps it's projection? Maybe it's jealousy. Maybe they wish the knew how to rub two Scriptures together and come up with the warmth and light of obvious truth.
Given their Rubber Bibles and ineptness . . . I don't think they'll ever learn to do that . . . not in this life. Though we ought to pray otherwise.
It's so shallow now that a gnat has trouble taking a spit bath in it. If they keep it up, the depth should equal the water in a pool mirage on the highway in AZ in August.
Study the prophetic pronouncements on the various countries surrounding Israel in the OT. Now with that foundation, start researching Rev 6:8 (1/4th of the world's population killed), 16-17; the angel judgments of Rev 8; an additional third of the remaining population is killed Rev 9:18. I will not insult your intelligence to let you look up the multitudes of 'reasons', for they boil down to one - rejection of and open rebellion towards God.
INDEED.
REJECTION OF AND OPEN REBELLION against God's Word is alarmingly close to rejection and open rebellion against God.
That's one of the things that most alarms me about so much of the idiotic attitudes and brazen trashing of plain Scriptures from the REPLACEMENTARIAN et. al's perspectives.
INDEED.
However, 'tis a common REPLACEMENTARIAN et al practice . . . as though God doesn't notice or care. Sigh.
There you go again . . .
trying to be rational, Biblical, historically accurate and sensible with
REPLACEMENTARIANS et al.
I mostly agree with you.
However . . . there’s enough flags on the play to wonder.
I have no interest—the opposite—actually—in trashing other believers.
I have a lot of interest in trashing trashy UNBIBLICAL junk from the pit that endangers lurkers eternal destinies.
Related topic, End Times health care and the mark of the beast.
Received today from
Highlights,
“Some thoughts”
by Meri Ford
Renewed Hope Counseling
Jul 29, 2009
‘There’s so much in the news about so many things these days that it is easy to get distracted from our primary focus on Him, on desiring His Presence, and all that we need of Him. One of the big distractions today is the Health Care Bill. How easy for us Seniors to get disturbed about “what” and “if”, etc. And yet, within me is a deeper concern? Will I know how to lean on Jesus? Do I know today how to lean on Jesus and draw from His life when I face medical challenges?
‘If I don’t today, what makes me think I will when health care is denied?
‘And I belief the question is “when” not “if” and have sensed for years that as a nation/world we will be coming to the place the scriptures speak of where none of the basics of “survival” will be available without our “ID.” How soon and how are still to be uncovered.
‘... we are already past the day of “fighting”, that it is almost past the “day of preparation.” Am I ready? I don’t know?
...
‘Are my times in the Lord’s hands? Are my times appointed and determined by Him or by the medical profession? Does the Lord know what is happening in the medical field and has he determined my days accordingly before the foundation of the world or will I give the determination of my life into the hands of the local medical team?
‘It seems to me as we move into a day when “man” is seeking to take control over a governmental system and economy that is out of control that we will find that we will have increasing opportunities to put our trust and faith in the Lord Jesus and the reality that HE IS IN CONTROL, that times and seasons are in His hand, that my days are appointed by Him.
...
‘The scriptures tell us HE came to set us free....to save our souls...to empower us from the inside out to have love, joy, peace, patience, longsuffering, gentleness, etc. When we don’t have internal control we will have external control. One of my mentors continually talks about homoestatis....and put in other tems, the pressure on the inside must equal the pressure on the outside or some adaptation must be made for the organism to survive.
...
‘So we see in our society today as is prophesied throughout the scriptures. Personally I think it is a great diversion to focus on what and if as related to the new health care actions that will be taken by Congress. It is wasted time that will take away from the time we could be spending learning how to walk in the provision of God, of equipping others to walk in the provision of God, and sharing the “good news” of the Kingdom of God which may be the only “good news” we are going to hear today or tomorrow as relates to what is happening in our global society.’
Selective literalism without regard for the context of the passage.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
THX.
INDEED.
ALL
SEEMS to be seen strickly through their narrow rigid biases . . .
Seemingly caring absolutely nothing for “God’s bias,” God’s Perspective—the only one that counts . . .
and certainly seeming to care little to nothing for the clarity inherent in many of these prophetic passages of Scripture.
a GOOD link:
ISRAELI GIFT SHOP ONLINE.
Isaiah 13:9
Isaiah 24:19-20
Rev 7:1-17
Daniel 11, 12
Ezekiel 20:33-38
It puts away an end of wickedness.
Brings about a worldwide revival.
and it breaks the will of stubborn Israel.
Zechariah 13 speaks of the purging of false prophets from Israel with about 2/3 of Israel being removed.
What are you trying to communicate regarding Zech 13?
It’s easy to randomly list verses. It’s much more difficult to take the time to go through each one, exegete and explain how they support your theory.
Without that level of effort, there is no sense wasting my time on a response.
It puts away an end of wickedness. Brings about a worldwide revival. and it breaks the will of stubborn Israel.
More dispensational theory. See my point above.
Zechariah 13 speaks of the purging of false prophets from Israel with about 2/3 of Israel being removed.
What are you trying to communicate regarding Zech 13?
It says nothing about antichrist or any of the other pop dispensational/futurist theories. That is my point. The reasons given for the destruction of the 2/3 are found in the text of Zech. 13 and they have nothing to do with your futurist antichrist, at least not according to the Bible. Mentioning the antichrist wrt Zech. 13 only further demonstrates that critical analysis of the text is not the hallmark of most futurist thinking.
And they have a very good reason for doing so. It is not an arbitrary thing. It comes from carefully comparing Scripture with Scripture to discover how certain texts fit within the genre. Time texts are most often used in the Bible in a very literal sense. Compare "this generation" in Matthew 24 with the rest of the places it is used in the gospels, as well as with places like Number 32:13, “So the Lord's anger was aroused against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation that had done evil in the sight of the Lord was gone.” This text is where the idea of a biblical generation equaling about 40 years comes from. In the rest of the gospels, the phrase “this generation” (and its variants) always refers to the contemporary generation living in the 1st century. You need a much stronger case to make it refer to some far future generation than the obvious and clear reference to 1st century Jews living in Judea.
The other language in Matthew 24 is highly symbolic and follows the pattern established with the prophets in the OT. E.g., Isaiah 13:10; “For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine.” This language is used to describe the temporal judgment against the ancient nation of Babylon.
The other language in Matthew 24 is highly symbolic and follows the pattern established with the prophets in the OT. E.g., Isaiah 13:10; “For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine.” This language is used to describe the temporal judgment against the ancient nation of Babylon. And so there is good reason to interpret similar language in Matthew 24 as referring to the temporal judgment against ancient Israel in the 1st century. In fact this is confirmed by examining the parallel passage in Luke 21 where specific reference is made to “Jerusalem surrounded by armies”.
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