CWR Round-Table: Caritas in Veritate (Web exclusive)

Catholic World Report ^ | July 9, 2009

[NYer]

My prediction is that this thread will garner very little attention as most folks, including our fellow freepers, are too lazy to read through lengthy texts before posting their comments.

[NYer]

My prediction is that this thread will garner very little attention as most folks, including our fellow freepers, are too lazy to read through lengthy texts before posting their comments.

[NYer]

It was predictable, but is nevertheless regrettable, that many pundits and partisans would respond to Caritas in Veritate not so much by engaging Pope Benedict’s profoundly Christian humanism but instead by hunting through the text for quotations they could deploy in support of their own pet policies.

[Miss Marple]

Thanks, NYer. I will be linking this thread to other sites.

E.J. Dionne came out today and said the Pope was to the left of Obama. Of course, he cherry-picked the quotes he wanted and ignored the rest. This is a good thread to use for rebuttal.

[AliVeritas]

Great, thanks.

[NYer]

For the Church, the Sermon on the Mount cannot be separated from “Honor thy Father and Mother,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not steal.” This is not a seamless garment. For it is not an artifice constructed by our wills. It is a living organism, made by God, whose parts work in concert for the benefit of the whole. Thus, the “justice” in social justice refers to a rightly ordered polity, not to the outcomes and/or processes advocated by the ideologies of a Ludwig Von Mises or a Karl Marx. In Christian theology, you can gain the whole world and lose your own soul (Luke 9:25). To paraphrase St. Paul, that’s a stumbling block to the Austrians and foolishness to the Marxists.

This from a former Evangelical.

[DoughtyOne]

The problem for me, is I don’t follow every edict or writing emanating from the Pope. The Pope is not someone I am in full support of because of my religions affiliation, but I do try to be respectful, and I believe I made some fairly reasoned comments concerning that in my post.

I have to address policy, and so I do. If there is another side to it, I encourage folks to make that known to me and others.

Despite some criticism of policy on my part, I believe the Pope got a full airing here, and I support that.

[fortunecookie]

I haven't finished reading it, but this caught my eye from above:

Pope Benedict's vision of a well-ordered and just society

Contrary to the MSM 'interpretation' (or spinning) of the Pope's Encyclical, his vision for a truly just society is exactly what we need at this very time and it shows great courage that he came out and said it, to pen this Encyclical, when much of the world is trying to shout to the opposite.

That the MSM has no choice but to try to spin it to suit them, is no surprise. And they've clearly had a shot at reading it ahead of us, they have to make sure to 'digest' it for us. All the more reason for the round table.

Once again, Pope Benedict has proven himself ahead of the curve, really courageous to write this at this time when the call is for more socialism and global control, not a truly just world.

And debuting ahead of President Obama's overdue visit with the Holy Father. Wow.

I imagine Liberation Theology devotees are wondering how to spin it or dispel it asap. I'm waiting to hear what our local priests and our Bishop have to say.

[fortunecookie]

This from a former Evangelical.

Wow. We're blessed to have him join our ranks.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“My prediction is that this thread will garner very little attention as most folks, including our fellow freepers, are too lazy to read through lengthy texts before posting their comments.”

Yep.

[dsc]

“the ideologies of a Ludwig Von Mises”

Zow. Is there any considered, educated, well supported, even brilliant worldview that someone won’t denigrate as an “ideology?” And to separate him from Karl “Rosemary’s Baby” Marx with only an “or a,” as if they were comparable, much less equal...

No, no, I won’t countenance it. This is merely the knee-jerk self-righteousness of the man who thinks himself a “moderate” and assumes the moral superiority of his own position.

Moral superiority increases as a linear function of an idea’s distance to the right of “moderation.”

“In Christian theology, you can gain the whole world and lose your own soul (Luke 9:25). To paraphrase St. Paul, that’s a stumbling block to the Austrians”

I would really like to see an example of that. Although von Mises himself was an agnostic, it was not religion that is a stumbling block to the Austrians, but the pre-emptive surrender of so much of religion to socialism. See http://mises.org/story/1736.

Except insofar as socialism has infested religion, there is no conflict between the Austrian school of economics and the Catholic faith, once the latter is filtered of the socialist influence.

And speaking of the socialist influence, the Catholic Church cedes the war of words to Satan in its adoption of the Marxist term, “Social Justice.”

Rather than promoting equality of economic outcomes among unequal people, the Church should return to promoting charity, agape, and mercy.

The quality of mercy is not strain’d,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
‘Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God’s
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That, in the course of justice, none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy.

Shakespeare had it right: mercy is above the sceptered sway of justice, and earthly power imitates God’s when mercy seasons justice.

This social justice kick the Church went on in the 1960s is a grave, ghastly mistake. If you listen closely, you can hear Satan shrieking with laughter.

[Tax-chick]

I’m still trying to get through the Pope’s document! When I’m done, maybe I’ll have a look at the comments from these gentlemen, most of whom I find pretty impressive.

So far (about 14 pages to go) I’m just not finding much that’s new in this document. I’d like to think that the repeated emphasis on “truth” implies, among other things, “Stop doing things that demonstrably, time after time, don’t work!” but expecting B16 to use simple phrases, or succumb to basic paraphrase, is a losing battle.

[Salvation]

I tend to agree with your comments.

Nevertheless, this is an excellent thread with a myriad of views about Caritas in Veritate.

God bless all of them.

[Salvation]

**Of course, he cherry-picked the quotes he wanted and ignored the rest. **

Just like the Reuters thread that everyone is taking for Gospel truth.

Why do they believe the leftist media on the Catholic Church when they don’t believe the leftist media on Republican matters? Gets me!!!!

[Salvation]

CWR Round-Table: Caritas in Veritate (Web exclusive)

Editorial: Pope's New Encyclical Speaks Against, not for One-World Government and New World Order
Caritas in Veritate: language in paragraph 67 [Vanity]
Why does Pope Benedict talk about Humanae vitae in the new encyclical? [Catholic Caucus]
[Caritas in Veritate] Father Fessio: A New Framework for Social Justice [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
A Capitalist or Anti-Capitalist Encyclical? [Caritas in Veritate]

A Capitalist or Anti-Capitalist Encyclical? [Caritas in Veritate]
Caritas In Veritate (Pope Benedict XVI Encyclical)-Full Text
Pope's New Encyclical Speaks Against New World Order [Catholic Caucus]
On the 3rd Encyclical (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
Best Pro-Life Quotes from Pope Benedict XVI's New Encyclical

Encycli-bites for reading “Caritas in veritate”
In new encyclical Pope Benedict slams population control, urges openness to life
The New Encyclical [Cairtas in Veritate -- Love and Truth] {Ecumenical]
AP, Reuters Go Full Tilt in Spinning Latest Writing of Pope
Caritatis [sic] in Veritate: papal encyclical calls for new moral approach to global economy (CWN)

Supreme Knight criticizes use of Pope's encyclical for political agendas
Benedict XVI explains gifts and limitations of free market economy
Benedict XVI Tightens Up the Church's Social Teaching
Excerpts from Pope Benedict XVI New Encyclical "CARITAS IN VERITATE" (CHARITY AND TRUTH)
Love for others requires involvement in politics, pope says

[ConservativeMind]

But I have 380 contiguous words of his that prove that “insight” wrong. Those together are more frightening than any quote.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2287409/posts?page=143#143

[Salvation]

You are taking those words out of context. I keep saying again and again — read the entire document. Then you can make comments.

[dsc]

“Why do they believe the leftist media on the Catholic Church when they don’t believe the leftist media on Republican matters?”

I think it’s because people aren’t used to thinking about theological leftism.

When Satan attacks through distorted political philosophy, we call it political leftism. When he attacks through toxic economic ideas, we call it economic leftism.

But he also attacks through distorted, toxic theology, and that we are not taught to see as theological leftism.

All three eminate from the same source, and have the same object, but are not seen as branches of the same tree.

Preaching political or eonomic leftism is not allowed on FR, but theologial leftism gets a free pass.

[Desdemona]

It's the next morning, but I'll bump this. George Neumayr, editor of Catholic World Report, IMO, had the best, most concise analysis.