Posted on 06/28/2009 12:09:35 PM PDT by Colofornian
On the evening of June 27, 1844, an armed lynch mob descended upon the Carthage, Ill., jail. The mob, their faces disguised with a mixture of mud and gunpowder, was bent on killing Joseph Smith, the powerful Mormon prophet and founding father of the Church of Latter Day Saints.
The Illinois governor had placed Smith under arrest for, among other crimes, ordering the destruction of a printing press that produced the first edition of the Nauvoo Expositor, a newspaper critical of Smith and the practices of his religious movement.
The destruction of the press was not the best public relations move for Smith, a presidential candidate.
The people of western Illinois and eastern Missouri didn't like how Smith and his followers were gaining power during the run-up to the 1844 presidential election.
According to some, he had overstepped the bounds of religion and used it to further his political ideas. In the nearby town of Nauvoo, Ill., Smith had established a Mormon stronghold. In Nauvoo, Smith held the titles of president and prophet of his church and also held the positions of mayor, court judge and commander of the militia called the Nauvoo Legion. Smith and his growing group of followers held ultimate power to sway the presidential vote in Illinois.
As the Mormon prophet looked down from the Carthage jail's second floor window, the mob must have appeared as so many wicked heathens coming to send him to meet Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament, whom Smith readily adopted for his religious text called The Book of Mormon.
Mormons believe that at age fourteen when Smith was looking to join a church, God and Jesus appeared to him in Palmyra, N.Y., and told him that all religious denominations had fallen away from the true Christian faith. God and Jesus advised Smith to join none of them.
Three years later, according to Mormon tradition, an angel named Moroni appeared to Smith and told him the location of two golden plates inscribed with the history of two ancient Native American Jewish tribes known as the Lamanites and Nephites. Smith found the plates, along with two magical stones that allowed him to translate the plates. According to the plates, a Jewish prophet named Lehi led the lost tribes out of Israel to North America in 600 B.C.
From these golden plates and magical stones Smith created the Book of Mormon, the story of Jesus' crucifixion, resurrection and visitation to the ancient inhabitants of North America.
Smith began recruiting disciples and sending emissaries into the land to spread the word of his newly discovered faith. The Latter Day Saint movement spread north to Canada and west to Missouri and Illinois.
Smith sent his emissary and disciple John Brown to the American South. Brown established his headquarters in northeast Mississippi and canvassed Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia in search of converts.
In Marion County in northwest Alabama, John D. Holladay and his family along with several other families crossed the state line and joined Brown in Mississippi in 1846.
Brown led the converts from Mississippi on a great migration west to join other Mormons to a promised land where they would suffer no persecution, as they had in Missouri during the 1838 Mormon War.
The group from Mississippi became known as the 'Mississippi Saints' and led the vanguard of Mormon President Brigham Young's wagon train. The Mississippi group was the first to see the Great Salt Lake Valley, where Young would famously declare, 'this is the right place,' after viewing the scenery there.
Young established a theocracy in Salt Lake City where the Mormon religion and government shared no separation. Young began preaching an end-of-the-world scenario where God would exact vengeance on gentiles. Mormon leaders preached a doctrine of 'blood atonement' for the previous persecution of Mormons.
Some historians and scholars believe that this blood-for-blood doctrine and the end-times rhetoric resulted in the incident that would become known as the Mountain Meadows massacre.
On Sept. 11, 1857, Mormons assisted by Piute Indians slaughtered about 120 men, women and children of the Fancher-Baker wagon train from Arkansas.
A government investigation later revealed that Mormons disarmed the men, separated them from the women and children and led them all into a field where they were shot dead.
Two years later, the remains of the immigrants lay unburied where they were killed. Government investigator Brevet Major J.H. Carleton surveyed the crime scene, which he called 'one too horrible and sickening for language to describe. Human skeletons, disjointed bones, ghastly skulls and the hair of women were scattered in frightful profusion over a distance of two miles.'
The Mormons almost certainly remembered the death of the prophet Joseph Smith as they slaughtered the immigrants. Smith's final moments on earth played out like a scenario in a modern-day video game.
The lynch mob climbed the stairs, reached the wooden door and began firing bullets through it. Hyrum Smith, Joseph's brother, and Willard Richards tried to hold the door. A lead ball struck Hyrum in the face and a ball, shot from the street below, struck him in the back. 'I am a dead man,' he exclaimed.
The mob pushed their rifles through the partially opened door and the prophet Joseph Smith aimed and began firing a six-shooter pistol, but only three barrels fired. The mob fired back.
Church elder John Taylor struck at the thundering rifles with a walking stick.
'Streams of fire as think as my arm passed by me as these men fired, and it looked like certain death,' he wrote later.
'Every moment the crowd at the door became more dense ... until the whole entrance was crowded with muskets and rifles. With the swearing, shouting and demoniacal expressions of those outside the door and on the stairs, and the firing of the guns, mingled with their horrid oaths and execrations, made it look like pandemonium let loose.'
Taylor sprang for an open window, but was shot in the thigh. He was shot three more times as he attempted to crawl underneath a bed. He was hit below the left knee, the left forearm and another ball struck his left hip 'and tore away flesh as large as my hand, dashing the mangled fragments of flesh and blood against the wall.'
Smith sprang for the window and was also cut down. Two shots from the doorway penetrated his chest and shoulder. He was hit twice more by shots from the street. Smith fell from the window, hit the dirt and was shot several more times. His final words, uttered 165 years ago today, were 'Oh Lord, My God!'
If I were in custody of someone who had joined in a murderous conspiracy against me and my friends, I would use any weapon at my disposal to defend myself and those with me.
But you seem to think that I would be wrong to do so. Indeed, you have tried to excuse the actions of a lynch mob because their intended victims dared to fight back. You even suggested—contrary to all evidence—that the mob attacked because they knew the victims were armed and ready to defend themselves. Even you could not sustain such a ludicrous theory.
So-called messianic connection: Apparently J. Smith made some remark as he was heading back into town that he was going like a lamb to the slaughter. McKeever pointed out in the vid clip I posted how Mormons like to quote Smith as an attempt to portray him as some Messianic-like figure.
I watched the video clip. The "messianic connection" exists only in the mind of McKeever and those foolish enough to believe what he says.
I will be as clear as possible: The Latter-day Saints do not regard Joseph Smith as the Messiah; we do not worship Joseph Smith; we do not believe Joseph Smith is the equal of Jesus Christ. We do believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, who is deserving of great honor and respect for the work he performed. But we are clear that Jesus Christ is the Master and Joseph Smith the servant.
But what are the comparative facts [sic]? What if the Lamb of God, Jesus, had acted like Joseph Smith?
Since Mormons do not believe that Joseph Smith was or is the Lamb of God, your comparison is fatuous at best.
To me, this is what it all boils down to. A so-called “man of God” would not have done the things he did that put him in that position. I don’t care how you slice it. He alone put himself in that predicament and it ended how it did. Justifiably or not, I can understand how those folks would have felt threatened for their wives and daughters and the actions they undertook to protect them.
SZ
Not exactly. Joseph Smith was in jail awaiting trial for the destruction of private property. He had not been tried or convicted of the offense.
After Joseph and Hyrum gave themselves up for trial, the charge was changed to treason, a non-bailable offense. Again, no trial was held.
Surely you're not advocating destruction of private property; are you?
I never have.
On the other hand, some of my conservative friends here seem to be advocating the death penalty—without trial—for the destruction of private property.
Had Joseph Smith been convicted on the original charge of "riot," I believe the maximum penalty would have been a $200 fine or six months in jail. He may well have been required to compensate the owners of the printing press.
No doubt the mob convinced themselves that Joseph Smith had done wrongs worthy of death. But why not wait for a trial?
Remember, Joseph and Hyrum had surrendered voluntarily. Even if they had been guilty of great crimes, they were no threat sitting in their jail cell. They were not a flight risk. The governor had promised a trial before a non-Mormon jury. There can be no reason to resort to murder.
I have not and would not.
Nor would I advocate lynching, whether it be for treason, destruction of property, or any other charge.
Sorry, no sympathy here. The folks of that town obviously felt that he was going to get away with his affronts to public decency in addition to the destruction of private property and decided to dispense a bit of frontier justice. In retrospect, they unfortunately compounded the root of the problem.
_______________________________________________
Joey Smith was the unelected Mayor of Nauvoo (Although he had been elected “king” LOL)
He was kept in jail because the Gov breought a charge of treason against him..
Joey Smith had decared martial law and had called out the Nauvoo Legion (maybe up to 5,000 men) just because of the newspaper being published...
Those milita had destroyed the press and burn the building...
Since Joey Smith had used his position to violate the constitutionall rights of those men and the citizens of Nauvoo, the Gov had him arrested etc...
Those citizens were sick of him and probably did think that Joey Smith was doing a King George and would get away with it as usual and they acted accordingly with their Tea Party..
King George was hanged in effergy and his governors and local rulers killed and driven off during the American Revolution...
And remember this was only 60 years after the end of the Revolution, and 30 years after the War of 1812...
Some of the men, and their dads and granddads would have fought for their right to live free, and here was “king” Joey Smith suppressing their rights again like the English king had done.
(And the mormons regard themselves as the “saviors” of the Constitution ROFLMBO)
Joey Smith had wantonly flaunted his one night stands, his stealing other mens wives, his boozing, his pyramid schemes, his land grabs, his corrupt government, his theocratic/dictatorial rule over Nauvoo. He had killed and stolen from the non-mormons and was a threat to their wives and young girls.
He thought he could take any woman and anything he saw. One woman he attacked fought him off him and told her husband. That husband, William Law, published the Nauvoo Expositor with the articles exposing Joey Smith.
And that, as Paul Harvey would say, is the rest of the story.
Since Mormons do not believe that Joseph Smith was or is the Lamb of God, your comparison is fatuous at best.
______________________________________________
Mormons believe that nobody gets into the mormon heaven without the say so of Joey Smith...
Since Mormons do not believe that Joseph Smith was or is the Lamb of God, your comparison is fatuous at best.
______________________________________________
This song that the mormons sing on Sunday mornibfgs is about Joey Smith not Jesus Christ...
Great is his glory and endless his priesthood:
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.
[”Praise to the Man,” Hymns, no.147]
Mormons believe that Joseph Smith will do what he is directed to do by Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Master, Joseph is his servant.
Mormons believe that nobody gets into the mormon heaven without the say so of Joey Smith...
___________________________________________
There is] “no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God”
—Joseph Fielding Smith (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190).
“This [the LDS] Church...is the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth”
—Joseph Smith (Doctrine and Covenants 1:30).
“This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth...”
—President Ezra Taft Benson(Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.164-165).
“If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”
—Bruce McConkie (Mormon Doctrine, p.670).
“This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life”
—Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) (Conference Report, April, 1961, pg. 119).
Mormons believe that nobody gets into the mormon heaven without the say so of Joey Smith...
___________________________________________
Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them—something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them—namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—”Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!” But it is true.
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol 7 P289
But it is not the only hymn we sing. Here are some that have been sung in my ward recently:
6. "Redeemer of Israel"
31. "O God, Our Help in Ages Past"
59. "Come, O Thou King of Kings"
119. "Come, We That Love the Lord"
136. "I Know That My Redeemer Lives"
141. "Jesus, the Very Thought of Thee"
181. "Jesus of Nazereth, Saviour and King"
182. "We'll Sing All Hail to Jesus' Name"
184. "Upon the Cross of Calvary"
187. "God Loved Us So He Sent His Son"
Does it surprise you that we sing so much of Jesus Christ? Well, it shouldn't.
You see, as a "Mormon," I am a follower of Jesus Christ. He is my Savior and Redeemer.
I came to know Jesus because of the work he initiated through Joseph Smith. For that reason, I believe that Joseph Smith will indeed be "crowned in the midst of the prophets of old." And it will be Jesus Christ who places the crown on his head.
Good night.
I suppose if one can justify murder, he can justify just about anything -- including affronts against logic.
But your point is well taken. I see little difference between the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the lynchings of Joseph and Hyrum Smith. Both were horrific crimes. No doubt the perpetrators of both crimes are suffering the punishment of a just God.
I would take it a step further: There is little difference between those crimes and the horrific murders of "infidels" by terrorists. Those who beheaded Daniel Pearl were motivated by the same spirit that moved the Mormon militia at Mountain Meadows and the anti-Mormon mob in Carthage, Illinois.
I am filled with revulsion at the thought of shedding innocent blood. It is beyond me how anyone who claims to be a Christian can justify such a crime.
Be that as it may, I have had enough of this thread. Good night to you.
Faulty logic, both the Carthage and Haun’s Mill events involved men who were armed and had the ability and willingness to put up a fight and defend themselves. There was no deception at either of those events by their attackers. Casualty count was ~ 20 men.
MM was an outright massacre of over 120 unarmed men, WOMEN and CHILDREN where the men were lied to and convinced of their safety in order to lay down their arms. Deceived by and murdered by their attackers after surrendering the ability to defend themselves and their families. Then left to rot.
Deception on the part of lds, is that what you’re trying to justify? 6:1 body count isn’t sufficient?
Does not compute.
SZ
So, let me get this straight, the murder of innocent men by an armed protestant mob is not murder?
Wow, finally a protester admits to the double standard!
I agree with you.
No, never implied nor said that so don’t attempt to put words in my mouth. Your attempt at moral equivalency between those events failed and failed miserably. I drew a straight line comparison that you refused (refuse?) to do.
Waving a flag of truce to get your enemy to surrender and then murder not only the men, but the women and children as well is deceitful, devious and devilish. That’s all.
SZ
You mean like Haun’s mill? And like the PRISONERS that were shot to pieces in Carthage? Yes, those were despicable acts that protestants appear to try to justify.
Joseph and Hyrum Smith were MURDERED. The people in Missouri were MURDERED. Body counts don’t justify anything.
WOW, this thread is a testament to the fervor of those who will follow blindly, against all reason, the leaders of cults.
To those lurkers who see mormonism as "just another Christian sect" and the members as the "nicest people in the world", imagine a call from the leaders in Salt Lake going out to thousands and thousands of like-minded mormons to take up arms against their so-called enemies in "defense of the faith".......Koolaid anyone?
Anytime I see an LDS member talk about logic...
Man...
What was it the great military leader Mormon said?
Oh yeah, nothing...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.