Posted on 06/27/2009 8:00:09 PM PDT by jhoge
Ayn Rand was an atheist. According to her one-time associate Barbara Branden, Rand became an atheist at age thirteen. Branden records Rand writing in her diary at that age: "Today I decided to be an atheist." Branden then reports her as later explaining, "I had decided that the concept of God is degrading to men. Since they say that God is perfect, man can never be that perfect, then man is low and imperfect and there is something above him – which is wrong." [Branden, PAR, p. 35.] Branden continues that Rand's "second reason" is that "no proof of the existence of God exists."
Rand therefore proposes two objections to the existence of God. First, belief in God degrades man, by positing something "higher" or more "perfect." Belief in God is anti-man. Second, there is no proof for the existence of God. While Rand would later emphasize the irrationality of belief in God, the impression from her writings is that her principal objection to belief in God was a moral or psychological one. [Ryan, OCR, p. 270.]
(Excerpt) Read more at solohq.org ...
I was knocked on my butt too. It’s a really, really difficult thing to explain.
I know. For those of us who can’t just believe and follow, it takes that personal experience. Like it says, it is foolishness to the Greeks.
parsy, who is foolish
As a result, I have learned to be “back at ya atheist boy” in attitude. I have no tolerance for the harassment or the know it all attitude of aggressive and insulting atheists in libertarian and scientific circles.
At first the hatred and false superiority of the idiots was like a gut punch. The insensitive aggression literally took my breath away. That is kind of like what a Black or Jewish person might feel like when they find themselves in the midst of an ignorant Klan.
Then it made me ready.
In public and political circles we are not inherently opposed forces but we sure can be at times. I have found as a Christian - a western cultural and ethics person - I have experienced a lot of cultural clashes with atheists and others who have adopted the humanist philosophy.
To me the humanist philosophy goes well with and leads to collectivism. It was the reactionary culture born of communism which rejected God and named man and the State god. A western philosophy and culture leads to rational self governed individual freedom. That is not to be confused with self centeredness.
American freedom was born of Western culture and the philosophy that influenced and inspired the founders of America. They were not humanists even though some may have been atheists or agnostic. They were influenced by the wisdom and knowledge of the Bible and the ideas of Western intellectuals even while some may not have believed in Christ. The culture of humanism is way different from Western culture and philosophy. Communists intended for it to be that way in order to get their sheep in line for values being dictated to them as it serves those controllers.
So...no there is no reason for atheists and Christians to be conflicted unless the atheists are humanists and then there will be serious conflict as humanism was designed by Marxists to reject, cleanse and be the opposite of western ethics, morals (values), and culture.
If Atheism clicks for you, then so be it. Just be an honest Atheist, and somewhere in the back of your mind keep the thought that not all people who believe in god are the same. There are some who started out just like you and as they got older, something happened to change their mind and it probably wasn’t Alzheimers.
And if you are interested in reading the bible, which can’t hurt if you believe it isn’t true, try one called The Message Bible. Its written in english.
parsy, who can’t find one of his houseshoes and may indeed have Alzheimers. (God, I hope I didn’t flush it down the damn toilet.)
Seriously. Your question is as dumb as asking whether one needs to be religious to be against abortion.
“Atheism and Conservatism are not opposed forces.”
Yet the enforced atheism of communist dogma gives me pause.
Atheism and communism seem to have a strong link.
“Mankind is a social animal, and the bond that keeps society together is love. You were wondering about why people love their near and dear ones, as they do. Well, it is that aspect that helped in their success as human beings, in the first place.”
I wonder then why Jesus died in our place. Were we all his near and dear ones? Even the thieves crucified next to him? Even Saul, later to become Paul, the sworn enemy of his disciples?
“You can’t say because of God, because not only is slavery not condemned in the Bible, there’s a whole chapter on rules on how to obtain and treat slaves.”
The Bible teaches about voluntary indentured servitude, and the proper keeping of slaves who were actually POWs. Safety of the slaves is protected, and ways out are given. To compare that with our modern day slavery is dishonest.
The Deut 22:28 reference you give is a protection for a young woman who is deflowered, not a protection for a rapist. She is to be made a wife, not treated as a toy. He is not allowed to divorce her. This is for her protection and provision. You completely misrepresent God’s word, here.
Parsy, I love your comments, but in re: your statement that men wrote the Bible, not God, the Bible itself claims otherwise frequently, for instance:
“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
Marie2, who recognizes her Father’s voice.
These are things that fit the realms of belief, not necessarily fact. Even if, sacrifice is not a new concept in the history of Man.
I’m a strong agnostic. I’ve been an atheist in my life. And I’ve been a theist. I’ve been a Christian. I’ve been an Anglican. I’ve changed my view of religion, and my view of God at times.
But I’ve been a conservative since at least the age of nine, and I’ve never wavered from that in all my life.
Currently, I’m a strong agnostic in the sense that I believe that the existence of God is both unproven and unproveable. I’m not sure if I’m quite a theist - that is, if I believe in God or not - but I attend Anglican church services weekly, while teaching in a Catholic school. I suppose I would say I want to believe. Because I believe religion - specifically Judaeo-Christiant religion - is an incredibly powerful force for good. But I can’t say I currently believe in God. Nor would I call myself a Christian at present.
I guess, I’d say it’s somewhat complicated for me.
No, the death of Jesus is an historical fact. More evidence for that than many other more recent historical figures.
And he died for those who hated and forsook him.
Not everyone dies just for those near and dear. Atheism can’t account for that. Atheism can’t account for a lot of things, really.
I think it was inspired by God but written by men. Alas, we are what God has to work with.
parsy, who wishes God had better than us to work for him
Conservative values are based on inalienable rights, most notably life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. What makes those rights "inalienable"? It's because they're given by our Creator or God; rights given by man can be taken back by man and and are therefore not inalienable. Atheists deny the existence of God and in turn the existence of God-given or inalienable rights. Imagine Stephen Hawking claiming to be physicist but saying he doesn't believe in the laws of physics. It would be laughable.
I agree that whether an individual believes in God does not change Conservative values, but it has a direct bearing on whether he or she is a true Conservative or just CINO. Peace, A
First of all, there is not much trust in things written 2000+ years ago, when literacy was the preserve of the few, and books, of the fewer; and when religion itself was a source of power, and often, the most important one.
It is no coincidence that the Vatican sits on a mountain of treasure, and that the Pope bears modified symobols of the former Roman Emperors, and other regents.
A person similar to whom we know today as Jesus might have existed, but then, similar people have existed in other cultures, as well, and raised and distorted to similar or higher pedestals by the subsequent generations.
Mormonism, for instance, number in the multiple millions today, and their religion was founded barely over a century ago. That is an astonishing growth rate, wouldn’t you agree?
The OP hasn’t joined in the thread. Troll.
Yes. It's also incompatible with the American form of government.
America's first premise is the self-evident truth that all men are CREATED equal, endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with certain unalienable rights.
Take away that foundational cornerstone and the whole edifice falls down. No God, no respect for the unalienable rights of those who are made in His image, and ultimately, no enjoyment of any sort of true liberty.
"Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
- Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation.
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
Ping! (Discussion about Rand and atheism)
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