Posted on 05/05/2009 9:02:29 PM PDT by ReformationFan
Pope: "Non-Negotiable Human Rights" include "Right to Life and Right to Freedom of Conscience and Religion"
VATICAN CITY, MAY 5, 2009 (LifeSIteNews.com) - Pope Benedict XVI addressed members of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences yesterday at their plenary session which is focused on the theme of Catholic social teaching and human rights, and called for the promotion of universal human rights based on both faith and reason, affirming the "right to life and the right to freedom of conscience and religion as being at the center of those rights that spring from human nature itself."
The Holy Father noted that though these human rights are not strictly "truths of faith, even though they are discoverable - and indeed come to full light - in the message of Christ who "reveals man to man himself," they do "receive further confirmation from faith."
Giving an historical perspective to human rights as "the reference point of a shared universal ethos - at least at the level of aspiration - for most of humankind," the Pope spoke of the "vast suffering caused by two terrible world wars and the unspeakable crimes perpetrated by totalitarian ideologies," as a consequence of which "the international community acquired a new system of international law based on human rights."
(Excerpt) Read more at lifesitenews.com ...
In fact, looking through the Crusades as military history, that was a major problem. There was no unified military command, and once cities started to fall, the various Crusader lords wanted to grab as much as they could and fought among themselves.
“Vote for the “mavro” (black), the other one is a malaka, (much worse than stupid).” This politically incorrect banner, placed outside the entrance of the Greek Orthodox Church of the Holy Trinity somewhere in the United States, was taken seriously by the vast majority of Greek Americans who voted overwhelmingly for Barack Obama in last week's presidential elections. The Greek-Americans with their well organized lobby and a new generation of Democrat voters have managed to position themselves near the 44th President-elect expecting a quick return for their support in hot foreign policy issues that involve Cyprus, Greece and Turkey. To start with, the Greek-American community who traditionally vote Democrat not Republican, were pleased when Barack Obama chose Joe Biden as his vice president.
Archbishop Demetrios Compares Obama to Alexander the Great
Archbishop Demetrios, leader of the largest Orthodox Christian jurisdiction in the United States, compared President Obama to Alexander the Great at a Greek Independence Day celebration at the White House. Politico, noting that the president got “a little unexpected flattery” from the hierarch about his crisis management skills, said the archbishop told Obama: “Following the brilliant example of Alexander the Great…you will be able to cut the Gordian knot of these unresolved issues.” The unexpected flattery was so over that top that it embarrassed the president and earned the archbishop a link on the Drudge Report.
Is there a particular historical heresy that you perceive here. Honestly I do not see it. When Christ and St. John called Herod to task, was THAT silly political posturing? When Christ and His apostles pulled grains of wheat on the Sabbath was that heresy?
“What good is the law if it is ignored?”
LOL, weak and foolish. Let’s see since there are murders should we abandon laws legislating that extreme form of immoral behavior?
“Are you saying that Catholic Bishops are allowed to interfere in each other’s business?”
That odd strawman again. Speaking out IN AGREEMENT with the Ordinary with jurisdiction and in accord with the USCCB is hardly ‘interference’ no matter how often schismatics try and make it so.
I was responding to BlackEll's post in which he boasts of "papal armies" and of Swiss guards having more than a ceremonial function. The Church was never meant to be a secular state, which the Papal states became, and having armies was an innovation never envisioned by the Apostles.
The primitive Church was adamantly opposed to any military service for its members, and against all war and violence. In that sense, the Orthodox Church remains unchanged, as in all other aspects.
I would hardly call the 45% that voted against Obama insignificant. At any rate, even if there were more goats than sheep, that also would not render the sheep insignificant.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church does not forbid capital punishment.
The Church is not to judge and Apostle Paul directs the Church to obey the authority of the land. Certainly, Obama's more pacifist stance was a more desirable choice for the Orthodox then the Republican platform. Apparently the majority of Catholics in America sided with their Orthodox brethren. That by no means implies that in doing so they approve of abortion.
As for the comparison to Alexander the Great, the comment was a customary remark in the Mediterranean region, drawing a parallel between the method of Alexander the Great's approach to solving hopelessly entangled problems (cutting the Gordian knot) efficiently and liked it to Obama's approach to solving problems.
The Papal States were in many ways an odd thing. They grew out of the remains of the Western Roman Empire, because in the Church was the only functional authority left for most of the people. Even when the Gothic kings ruled what is now Italy, the Church was pretty much left to its own devices. So the became a state within a state, and finally a state by itself.
What is interesting for me is that the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church changed as a result of the events of 1870. They went from a nation state that had at times a very confrontational foreign policy, to what we see now in JPII and BXVI.
It strikes me reading over this thread that it hearkens to fundamental cultural differences between the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholics: to wit, the EO penchant for regionalism or nationalism vs. the RC penchant for universalism.
LOL
Tht part I understand (it is bogus as well), but Kolokotronis made accusations of something like raving heresy in violation of the canons regarding one bishop making statements about what considerations people should make when voting in his own diocese.
Italy and Spain haven't been Catholic since they embraced socialism, France has not been Catholic since Robespierre came on the scene and Greece, that great Orthodox stronghold, thoroughly embraced communism for the better part of the last century. So much for Orthodox winning hearts and avoiding legislation.
The Church wears the mantle of prophecy and just as Samuel took Saul to task, Nathan berated David, Elijah to Ahab, etc. The Prophets acted as conscience to the political rulers who forgot God. That is still their duty.
Certainly, Obama's more pacifist stance was a more desirable choice for the Orthodox then the Republican platform. Apparently the majority of Catholics in America sided with their Orthodox brethren. That by no means implies that in doing so they approve of abortion.
How Any Christian can call America's premier promoter of infanticide a pacifist is simply beyond my ken. To say that they weighed the deaths of military volunteers (approx. 5,000: more Americans have been killed in the free Democratic state of Illinois since the war began, but I digress) and weigh the aforesaid 5,000 against the slaughtered 50,000,000 innocent lives in America's holocaust and think Obama's stance is more acceptable or humane is just plain old evil.
False. The Catechism is very explicit (and correct)
As long as you can lock someone away, the Catechism does not support execution. Critical reading is of critical importance for critical understanding, dear friend. The Catholic church does not condone killing except in extremis as the last and only resort left.
And even this is an innovation (of St. Augustine's) that was never accepted in the East. The early Church did not allow any killing under any circumstance, even when justified!
This includes +Justin Martyr (100-165 AD), Dialogue with Trypho 110, where he says their swords were changed into ploughs. And in his Apology 1.39, where he says
The same sentiment comes from +Clement of Alexandria (150- c. 211 AD) who writes
“Above all, Christians are not allowed to correct with violence the delinquencies of sins,” Fragments: Maximus, Sermon 55
“In our case, murder being once for all forbidden, we may not destroy even the fœtus in the womb,” Apology 9
“Shall it be held lawful to make an occupation of the sword, when the Lord proclaims that he who uses the sword shall perish by the sword? And shall the son of peace take part in the battle when it does not become him even to sue at law? And shall he apply the chain, and the prison, and the torture, and the punishment, who is not the avenger even of his own wrongs?” The Chaplet 11
Athenagoras of Athens (c 180 AD)
“We cannot endure even to see a man put to death, though justly,” A Plea for the Christians 35
Origen of Alexandria (185-254 AD) writes
“And as we by our prayers vanquish all demons who stir up war, and lead to the violation of oaths, and disturb the peace, we in this way are much more helpful to the kings than those who go into the field to fight for them… And none fight better for the king than we do. We do not indeed fight under him, although he require it; but we fight on his behalf, forming a special army – an army of piety – by offering our prayers to God,” Against Celsus 8.73
Cyprian of Carthage (250 AD)
“The whole world is wet with mutual blood; and murder, which in the case of an individual is admitted to be a crime, is called a virtue when it is committed wholesale. Impunity is claimed for the wicked deeds, not on the plea that they are guiltless, but because the cruelty is perpetrated on a grand scale,” Epistle 1.6
Athanasius of Alexandria (296-373 AD) says
“And this is at least incredible, inasmuch as even now those Barbarians who have an innate savagery of manners . . . and cannot endure to be a single hour without weapons; but when they hear the teaching of Christ, straightway instead of fighting they turn to husbandry, and instead of arming their hands with weapons they raise them in prayer, and in a word, in place of fighting among themselves henceforth they arm against the devil and against evil spirits, subduing these by self-restrains and virtue of soul. Now this is at once a proof of the divinity of the Saviour, since what men could not learn among idols they have learned from him,” On the Incarnation of the Word 52.2-4
This is what the early Church believed. There is no such thing as acceptable killing. The problem I encounter with many Catholics is that everything they know seems to come from the superficial reading of the Catechism, never mind the Fathers. If the Church followed what seems to be the American Catholic mind set Kolo was addressing, the Church would would have had no martyrs and no saints who died without lifting a finger, imitating the Lord to the very end, but a whole bunch of Jewish-like rebels who fought to the end.
Your arguments are extremelty revealing if not convincing, and the itnellectual brevity almost Laconic. My hat off to you.
The Church in Russia was never in charge of anything but Church matters, and even that wasn't always so. Peter the Great imposed his will on the Church. In the 19th century the head of the Church was a government appointed civil servant. Patriarchy was abolished by the state. But even then you don't have any records that resemble Crusades or Inquisition or a Church "army" in the East.
The Papal States were in many ways an odd thing
The Papal States were a reward for the Catholic-Frankish alliance. It was quest for power and recognition. It was also the kind of Church that was closer tot he Frankish mind set.
What is interesting for me is that the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church changed as a result of the events of 1870. They went from a nation state that had at times a very confrontational foreign policy, to what we see now in JPII and BXVI.
1870 was the end of imperial papacy. As the First Vatican Council took place hastily under the rumble of Italian guns outside the St. Peter's Basilica in Rome, the papa empire was reduced to the present-day Vatican city limits. Naturally, with the castration of papal secular power came the castration in the realm of the confrontational foreign policy pursued by the Vatican in the past. Power corrupt even the popes. :)
IIRC, he said that calling anti-abortion the highest Church dogma is heresy.
According to you. Last time I checked, the Vatican may disagree with you assessment. All those countries have a 20-25% agnostic/atheist population, but the remainder consider themselves Catholic. France also has a portion of Protestants and Muslims as well. Germany is about evenly divided between Catholics, Protestants (Lutherans) and agnostics/atheists.
So, according to you, none of the Catholic girls and boys in the US have extramarital sex, don't use contraceptives and no abortion? Well, you are wrong.
The Church follows in Christ's steps. Last time I checked, the Gospels sit on the Altar, not the OT. You may have been "portestantized" a bit if you follow the ways of the Old Testament.
The Church is not to judge. Judgment belongs to God.
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