[redgolum]

To be fair, the armies of the Fourth Crusade (and indeed most crusades) were not Papal armies in the sense that they were raised and under direct control of the Papal State.

In fact, looking through the Crusades as military history, that was a major problem. There was no unified military command, and once cities started to fall, the various Crusader lords wanted to grab as much as they could and fought among themselves.

[kosta50]

What you say is correct. In all fairness, I would like to add, the Pope tried to stop the carnage when it started, but with little success. IN all fairness to the Catholic Church, +John Paul II, in his humility, apologized for that "Crusade."

I was responding to BlackEll's post in which he boasts of "papal armies" and of Swiss guards having more than a ceremonial function. The Church was never meant to be a secular state, which the Papal states became, and having armies was an innovation never envisioned by the Apostles.

The primitive Church was adamantly opposed to any military service for its members, and against all war and violence. In that sense, the Orthodox Church remains unchanged, as in all other aspects.