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To: kosta50; BlackElk; Kolokotronis
But what about the “old” Russia? I have read many accounts of Russian army being viewed as something of a holy calling. And the soldiers in the Byzantine Empire (or Eastern Roman Empire) went from almost religious outcasts to very respected figures.

The Papal States were in many ways an odd thing. They grew out of the remains of the Western Roman Empire, because in the Church was the only functional authority left for most of the people. Even when the Gothic kings ruled what is now Italy, the Church was pretty much left to its own devices. So the became a state within a state, and finally a state by itself.

What is interesting for me is that the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church changed as a result of the events of 1870. They went from a nation state that had at times a very confrontational foreign policy, to what we see now in JPII and BXVI.

149 posted on 05/08/2009 7:58:08 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum; BlackElk; Kolokotronis
But what about the “old” Russia?

The Church in Russia was never in charge of anything but Church matters, and even that wasn't always so. Peter the Great imposed his will on the Church. In the 19th century the head of the Church was a government appointed civil servant. Patriarchy was abolished by the state. But even then you don't have any records that resemble Crusades or Inquisition or a Church "army" in the East.

The Papal States were in many ways an odd thing

The Papal States were a reward for the Catholic-Frankish alliance. It was quest for power and recognition. It was also the kind of Church that was closer tot he Frankish mind set.

What is interesting for me is that the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church changed as a result of the events of 1870. They went from a nation state that had at times a very confrontational foreign policy, to what we see now in JPII and BXVI.

1870 was the end of imperial papacy. As the First Vatican Council took place hastily under the rumble of  Italian guns outside the St. Peter's Basilica in Rome, the papa empire was reduced to the present-day Vatican city limits. Naturally, with the castration of papal secular power came the castration in the realm of the confrontational foreign policy pursued by the Vatican in the past. Power corrupt even the popes. :)

157 posted on 05/08/2009 8:54:03 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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