Posted on 04/05/2009 8:10:35 PM PDT by betty boop
Interesting imagery.
Okay, so think of it this way. We're on the Earth, which has a breathable atmosphere, a relatively mild temperature range compared to the rest of the solar system, plenty of water and other life to provide food. Now what if we had the capability to will ourselves into deep space just because we took Earth for granted and didn't particularly feel comfortable enough in its confines. We would die a horrible death if we decided to do so. Would Earth be to blame?
Also, you might want to look up what is considered worship in Christianity. It's not just singing and bowing down. And if you look at instances of worship in the presence of God in the Bible, He never commands people to worship Him.
No.
Yeah it's sad when philosophy professors look at a traditionally translated ancient text and without the knowledge of the idioms of the time, or the translation's introduction of the religious concepts of their time and the traditions that carried the wording on, start going on a tangent that depends on the misunderstanding of both.
The only thing you can answer. Self contradiction has a way of silencing you.
No self-contradiction is involved in refusing to answer a meaningless question. I’m not playing schoolyard word games with you.
You can provide no proof.
Because proof does not exist.
Prove it.
“The above is an anthropomorphism of God, it imposes human traits on One Who is not human. “
Honestly, I have a hard time taking this answer seriously, what would you call that kind of need? I only know humans, I cannot be worried about being judged for having rational thoughts based on my experiences in life.
I guess you think you’ve got him trapped or something, but he’s being perfectly consistent. Every proof ultimately resolves back to our perceptions, which are self-evident, unproven, and unprovable. Or have you figured out some proof for these? If so, that’s quite a feat given that no one prior to you has managed it.
I’m awful surprised anyone laying claim to a Biblical faith does this. Well, not surprised. Anybody can “claim” anything. But the Bible speaks of showing, demonstrating, proving. Deny this and still call yourself a Christian and I’ll laugh at you.
Agree, Hitler was trying to force selection, that’s what survival of the fittest, which Darwin equated with natural selection, is all about. Hitler’s behavior was aberrent? Without God and absolute truth, what is aberrent behavior? What you say it is? What I say it is? If we’re all just random chemical reactions and there’s no God or absolute truths, what makes one view superior to another?
Saying that inalienable rights come from a “whatever” Creator sidesteps the argument because “whatever” is the issue: From where did they come?
Perhaps God? No self-respecting atheist would say God endowed us with inalienable rights.
The Big Bang is included in your definition of Creator, but it didn’t furnish, provide or otherwise endow anything to anyone: It was a random event, so the theory goes, that spawned the simplist of life forms which, according to Evolution, evolved into humans.
Perhaps the Universe endowed us with inalienable rights? How in the world (pun intended) did it do that? The Universe is an inanimate object, a location.
We have inalienable rights because we’re humans? Under the Big Bang and Evolution theories, humans weren’t created, they evolved. How did any of the life forms from which we evolved endow us with inalienable rights? And did they suddenly come into existence with humans or did all prior life forms have inalienable rights too?
Because my questions were directed at atheists and because atheists would eliminate God as a possible answer, your post is not entirely responsive and thus far doesn’t, I think, promote a meaningful debate.
Peace, A.
Uh, no. Survival of the fittest is a natural process that leads to the fittest for a given environmental niche, not necessarily the strongest, brightest, etc. Hitler wanted the opposite of that. Hitler wanted to subvert natural selection and do what people had done with plants and animals for millenia--artificial selection.
Perhaps God? No self-respecting atheist would say God endowed us with inalienable rights.
I never said God did. But are you saying that an atheist cannot use Chamberlin's multiple working hypotheses? What other scientific methods would you deny me based on my beliefs? I don't believe the moon is made of green cheese, but I have no problem entertaining the hypothesis.
Perhaps the Universe endowed us with inalienable rights? How in the world (pun intended) did it do that? The Universe is an inanimate object, a location.
And if you go out on a sunny day without sunscreen, that inanimate object will endow you with a sunburn. Inanimate doesn't mean inert and idle.
And did they suddenly come into existence with humans or did all prior life forms have inalienable rights too?
Rights as a concept is a human construct that can encompass non-human entities. That the concept is a human construct doesn't mean humans created them, any more than the idea of "freedom" means that all animals were tied to stakes until humans arrived.
Because my questions were directed at atheists and because atheists would eliminate God as a possible answer, your post is not entirely responsive and thus far doesn’t, I think, promote a meaningful debate.
Your minor premise is flawed.
Peace, A.
Truth and Justice, G. :-)
Define “proof” and I will.
Thank you for the ping, sister.
Reading through the article and the responses, both pro and con, I’m struck by the positions taken.
I expect that they’ll be proven on the basis of their proximity to reality. Reality strikes me as immutable. As a believer in God, I am convinced of His realness. Ultimately, Reality is God who is the uncaused Cause. Therefore, any objections will eventually come up against that unmovable Wall and will be stopped dead in their tracks...simply because they have no basis in fact (only in human imagination).
This is true of any position counter to God. Whether Islam, Atheism, Scientism, or any other religion or philosphy, they all will stand or fall on the basis of their alignment with Reality.
Sometimes the separation from Reality is so extreme that the opponent hits the Wall sooner rather than later. (Sun worship for example.)
Interestingly, even our behaviors are weighed in this balance of Reality. Romans teaches us that those who cling to an Unreality must turn to that which is Unnatural, and thus, some of their unnatural behaviors will cause individuals to hit the Wall, the devastating impact on their well-being taking them from the stage of life. (Homosexual disease, for example, the result of, at a minimum, the religion of Self-Worship/Narcissism.)
Such will be the case with Atheism. The seeds of its own destruction, and/or that of its adherents, are inbuilt. Sooner or later, the directions an adherence to unreality allows the adherent to take, that seem rational to the adherent, are going to confront Reality. Sometimes that confrontation is a devastating crashing into the Wall. Sometimes its the slow approach to the immovable, unscalable Wall.
One cannot escape Reality....especially there is no escaping the One who is Ultimate Reality.
However, WHOSOEVER calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
No, religion is based purely on faith, nothing else is required. It is primarily circular logic. Science however is based on evidence and observation.
That is why on threads like this the religious try to use pure logic (based on faulty assumptions) to try and 'prove' their position. Reality though is based on what actually is, not a logical construct in somebodies mind.
Evidently the biblical cartoon of the same subject is beyond many readers and thinkers.. Even-though that cartoon crosses and has crossed all dialect and cultural lines..
The cartoon of which I speak is Satans gospel to Eve.. "Eat of the tree(of the Knowledge of Good and Evil) because once you do, you will know what God knows...".. This cartoon says the same as you've said(and more) in much fewer words and in cartoon(metaphorical) terms.. Seems that cartoons can bridge dialect and culture the way no other verbal instrument can..
Seems that the book of genesis is just full of Mega-toons and Mini-toons.. which form Mega-toons.. I know, I know some can use Macro-toons and Micro-toons.. but that is a debate for future iterations of....
the Gospel of SATAN!.. (ominous music)..
I can’t speak for the Miss but I am very uncomfortable with atheism. Technically I’m an agnostic but disbelief is disbelief. The main problem with a godless universe is that you are left without justice. Mankind has had millennia to figure out how to remove its own corruption and we have made ZERO progress. Even Christian societies and empires failed miserably. This is why I am not an anti-theist. I don’t give a damn about what Ayn Rand and other atheist philosophers call “loyalty to reason” or the “morality of pure reason”. There is no justice in this would. Therefore, God MUST exist even if he certainly doesn’t.
Despite this stance, I don’t know how to escape the position that I’m in. I’ve been trying to believe for years and I’ve found absolutely nothing that could convince my mind. Mere feelings of “God’s presence” would not be enough since my mind would quickly dismiss their validity. The reason why I don’t dismiss the possibility of God is that it is very difficult for anyone to imagine supernatural evidence that can be totally distinguished from natural evidence. Even the resurrection of dead humans, as fantastic as it would seem, could still be regarded by a skeptic as a super-rare natural phenomenon. Likewise, how are we to demonstrate that all known natural phenomena are indeed natural and not supernatural? This is why I am an agnostic and not a positive atheist. I’m not certain that supernatural things don’t exist but I can’t confirm them either.
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