HOW SOME ANTI-MORMONS MIS USE THE TRUTH. (OPEN)

I am tired of how some anti-Mormons here at FR, and other places, mis-use the history and teachings of my Church.

“”””” President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); “””””

Here is the part of the article not posted for you and as you read it, you will find that it does not say the things about my church that is implued by leaving out large parts of the text.

Please note, the address is to us, the LDS people, from one of the church leaders at the time, telling us that we are not doing what we should and that we must do better.

Notice how the “…” jump the first part of the post into another sentence and into another thought.

I have put “{{}}” around the parts posted to make it easer to see the misuse of this document.

We have first to learn submission to the will of God ourselves, through various trials, persecutions, and the development of our weaknesses and imperfections, and thereby learn to appreciate the goodness and blessings that flow from him. We must see that we ourselves first learn obedience, and then teach others. But how can we teach others a lesson which we have not learned ourselves?

There is not nation now that acknowledges that hand of God; there is not a king, potentate, nor ruler that acknowledges his jurisdiction. We talk about {{ Christianity }}, but it {{ is a perfect pack of nonsense }}. Men talk about civilization; but I do not want to say much about that, for I have seen enough of it. Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; {{ and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work that the Christianity of the nineteenth century. }}

(Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints' Book Depot, 1854-1886], 6: 167.)

She was SURE that what she was told was true.

F. I. F. E.

The other day I was listening to a financial advice program on the radio. The host and guest speaker were issuing warnings about investment schemes and how to recognize them.

The guest speaker used an acronym to remember the methods or approaches used by those who will try to lure someone into a scheme that will actually steal their money.

Think of F.I.F.E. - not Deputy Barney - but just as easy to remember.

"F" is for FEAR. The schemer will try to use fear to get people to fall for his plot. The uncertainty in the economy at this time is helping out these liars. They will mention how bad the stock market is and how much money people are losing. And then they use people's fear of having nothing left for retirement to get them to "invest" in a "sure thing". Ironicallly, these same deceivers present themselves as trustworthy.

"I" is for INSULT or INTIMIDATION. The schemer presenting his deceitful "investment" will either insult the person or use intimidation. If the person appears reluctant, the liar will make it sound as though only those who are really intelligent can have enough sense to recognize what a good deal the plan is. The liar might say something like, "You don't have to check with your spouse to make this kind of investment, do you?" Or he will limit the amount of time a person has to respond to try to intimidate him into falling for his plot. He might say, "This offer is only good for today."

"F" is for FLATTERY. One way to trap some people is by telling them how smart they are for recognizing such a good deal. Or they may be complemented on their clothes or car or house or behavior of their children, or any other complement that is handy. The point is for the crook to make the person feel smart and good about himself so he will lower his guard. So the schemer will find all kinds of disingenuous ways to flatter the person he has targeted. He doesn't mean a word of it. It is only a means of getting the person to think he is more discerning that he really is.

"E" is for EXCLUSIVITY. The crook will tell the person he is trying to deceive that the offer is limited only to people who are part of a certain group - a nationality, or club, or family background, or political affiliation, or heritage, or religion, or college alumni, or whatever. This plot is to make them feel special and chosen so that they believe they have something only a few other select people have. This approach plays on people's desire to be different and somehow "better" than the common investor.

Watch out for these type of approaches and ways to deceive you out of your money.

THE DEVIL'S F. I. F. E.

Perhaps you have already thought of the ways the devil uses the same types of methods to tempt us into sinning.

The devil is an expert at F. I. F. E.

Consider how the devil tempted Adam and Eve.

The devil approached Eve in a way that was appealing, not repulsive.

In a way, the devil used intimidation. He asked Eve, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden?' " Genesis 3:1 The devil made Eve question whether or not she heard God correctly. He made it sound as though she might be considered stupid for misunderstanding God.

On the other hand, he made Eve feel smart for taking the fruit by accepting what the devil said, "You surely will not die. For God knows when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, . . " Genesis 3:4-5 He used flattery.

He told Eve that she would become part of an very exclusive group - just her and God. " 'You will be like God', the devil said." Genesis 3:5 She would be very special.

And consider how the devil tempted Jesus in the wilderness.

The devil approached Jesus when He was weak and hungry, not having eaten for 40 days. The devil used the fear of starving to try to get Jesus to turn the stones into bread. "The temptor came to Jesus and said, 'If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.' " Matthew 4:3

The devil used the same ocassion to flatter Jesus by telling Him He could do anything He chose to do, inlcuding turn stones into bread.

The devil then confronted Jesus by using insult or intimidation. "The devil said, 'If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written,

'He will command His angels

concerning You,

and they will lift You up in

their hands,

so that You will not strike Your

foot against a stone.' ' ."

Matthew 4:6 (Psalm 91:11,12)

And the devil also used exclusivity. "The devil took Jesus to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. Then he said to Jesus, 'All this I will give you, if you will bow down and worship me.' " Matthew 4:8-9 Jesus was promised an exclusive place and position in the devil's kingdom if He would fall for his scheme.

Of course, Jesus did not fall for any of the devil's lies.

And Jesus answered all of the devil's schemes with the truth of the Word of God.

It isn't a stretch to see the F. I.F. E. principles to these Scriptures.

I fine that kind of questioning when it has been testified to as being disrespectful and also for some reason you think I need your approval or an ok from those in lock step.!

Well my allegiance is to the Lord Jesus Christ not to some tradition even philosophy of men

You do not need my approval. I do not need yours. We all need the approval of Jesus Christ alone, and the LDS church is NOT the way to get it. Surrendering yourself to HIM and HIM alone (not a church), and accepting His sacrifice on our behalf on the Cross (not Gethsemane) is how to gain His approval.

We are in lock-step? Apparently you are misinformed. Christians are not in lock-step with anyone but the Lord of All Creation.

The LDS, however, are in lock-step with the organization of the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Remember the quote from the 1945 Improvement Era - “when the prophet speaks, the thinking has been done.”

There is no “free thought” in Mormonism. The problems with Sunstone showed that. The “September Six” proved it as well.

You claim allegiance to Jesus Christ, but when you took out your endowments you covenanted (as does everyone), that:

“You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.”

Sounds like allegiance to the LDS church to me (traditions of man), not Christ.

I mean you no personal disrespect, yet if “respecting” you means agreeing with you and not telling you the truth of the matter, then I cannot do that. Just like I cannot do that with those who promote homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle.

The TRUTH will set you free, not enslave you to an organization. Christ did not come to set up a denomination, He came to set up a family. The TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST is the body of all believers, not an organization.

The ultimate goal for Mormons is exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom (highest of their 3 levels of heaven). This is celestial glory.

Mormons believe that they will continue to learn and progress there. It is also the only one of the three levels that has the presence of God the Father, the other 2 levels are lesser levels (non-mormons, less valiant or “active” LDS members go to these levels).

Part of this progression is to eventually become a God, with your own planet, and have “spirit children” who can then be born on that planet, live Mormonism, and gain exaltation.

Mormons also believe that this is exactly what our God did (and his God before him); that he was once a man, lived a life, was Mormon (even if it was called something else), went through the Mormon temple ceremonies, etc. in order to earn his Godhood.

The way it was explained to me when I was LDS was like this: We, as human parents, want our children to have a better life than we had, we cannot be BETTER than God, but we CAN be JUST LIKE HIM. God wants us to be the best we can and progress to Godhood. Furthermore, men and their priesthood are NEEDED to become Gods. A man (only men can have the priesthood) can become a God without a woman, but a woman cannot become a Goddess without a man.

One of the later prophets, Spencer W. Kimball said the following in a speech to the men of the LDS church:

“Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods.” (Ensign, Nov. 1975, p.80)

Hope this answers your question.

The LDS, however, are in lock-step with the organization of the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Remember the quote from the 1945 Improvement Era - “when the prophet speaks, the thinking has been done.”

Sure I rememebr I was almost 1 years old!:)

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Office of the First Presidency
Salt Lake City, Utah

December 7, 1945

Dr. J. Raymond Cope
First Unitarian Society
13th East at 6th South Street
Salt Lake City, Utah

My dear Dr. Cope:

I have read with interest and deep concern your letter of November 16, 1945, in which you make special comment on “a short religious editorial prepared by one of your (our) leaders entitled “Sustaining the General Authorities of the Church’”. You say that you read the message with amazement, and that you have since been disturbed because of its effect upon members of the Church.

I am gratified with the spirit of friendliness that pervades your letter, and thank you for having taken the time to write to me.

The leaflet to which you refer, and from which you quote in your letter, was not “prepared” by “one of our leaders.” However, one or more of them inadvertently permitted the paragraph to pass uncensored. By their so doing, not a few members of the Church have been upset in their feelings, and General Authorities have been embarrassed.

I am pleased to assure you that you are right in your attitude that the passage quoted does not express the true position of the Church. Even to imply that members of the Church are not to do their own thinking is grossly to misrepresent the true ideal of the Church, which is that every individual must obtain for himself a testimony of the truth of the Gospel, must, through the redemption of Jesus Christ, work out his own salvation, and is personally responsible to His Maker for his individual acts. The Lord Himself does not attempt coercion in His desire and effort to give peace and salvation to His children. He gives the principles of life and true progress, but leaves every person free to choose or to reject His teachings. This plan the Authorities of the Church try to follow.

The Prophet Joseph Smith once said: “I want liberty of thinking and believing as I please.” This liberty he and his successors in the leadership of the Church have granted to every other member thereof.

On one occasion in answer to the question by a prominent visitor how he governed his people, the Prophet answered: “I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.”

Again, as recorded in the History of the Church (Volume 5, page 498 [499] Joseph Smith said further: “If I esteem mankind to be in error, shall I bear them down? No. I will lift them up, and in their own way too, if I cannot persuade them my way is better; and I will not seek to compel any man to believe as I do, only by the force of reasoning, for truth will cut its own way.”

I cite these few quotations, from many that might be given, merely to confirm your good and true opinion that the Church gives to every man his free agency, and admonishes him always to use the reason and good judgment with which God has blessed him.

In the advocacy of this principle leaders of the Church not only join congregations in singing but quote frequently the following:

“Know this, that every soul is free
To choose his life and what he’ll be,
For this eternal truth is given
That God will force no man to heaven.”

Again I thank you for your manifest friendliness and for your expressed willingness to cooperate in every way to establish good will and harmony among the people with whom we are jointly laboring to bring brotherhood and tolerance.

Faithfully yours,

[Geo. Albert Smith [signed]

BTW
The truth has set me free the day I left the Mainstream church!

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