Posted on 02/24/2009 7:14:37 PM PST by topcat54
Joel Osteen: Muslim, Jew, or Messianic? From the man who rarely preaches against sin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU5kek3D-4I
I just listened to the clip.
Osteen is completely wrong about pigs, and how they are raised and fed. He is spreading false information about the pork industry.
Pigs have not been fed this way for over 100 years. And they take much longer than 4 hours for food to pass through them.
Actually every point that he made is completely wrong.
And the Bible does not prohibit us from eating pork. At least not the New Testament, if he follows it’s teachings.
Interesting you say that. Joel, to me, comes across like obommie - very slick and self serving. His mannersisms including that little smirk and closing his eyes turn me off to his charlaton ways.
I always enjoyed the late Dr. James Kennedy and recently discovered Dr. David Jerimiah. Both related biblical teachings to the modern world. Dr. Jerimiah just completed a series on the threat & danger of islam including allah not being the God of Abraham.
I heard a preacher named Jack Lemons say “I don’t ask for money. If God wants this program on another station, He’ll provide the money”.
Is JO “torah observant”, by any chance????
(Because I've been know to work little factoids like that into a conversation and I hate to be wrong).
Great song!
I have recently thought it fits many Obama supporters.
Nonsensical ignorance.
Og! Now that I think about it, I’m not sure that it’s trichinosis that cloven-hoofed animals get. I’m going from memory too, and I’m not 100% positive that trichinosis wasn’t merely a presumption when I read about pork getting parasites through the hooves.
Glad I checked gggg.
Doesn't really matter. The old covenant proscriptions regarding food have nothing at all to do with personal health. It was merely part of the (temporary) cultus of ancient Israel as a distinct people of God; like the wearing of fabric from two different sources or the length of one’s beard. Osteen doesn’t get it because he is a success-oriented preacher. Anything that might interferes with temporal success is to be avoided.
Now, while we should not knowingly do direct harm to our bodies (say, shooting oneself in the head), the suggestion that buying nice pork shoulder at the grocery store and making some deeee-licious BBQ is somehow to be avoided for health reasons, or worse yet, is offense to God, is absurd.
I have no problem with Osteen “keeping kosher” for personal reasons. When he starts preaching it from the pulpit from a position of bad theology, then he is to be opposed.
Not sure, but I did find a "messianic"/TO blog that was "high fiving" Mr. Osteen for his remarks.
I’m certainly not going to say you’re wrong. But whereas how circumcision establishes a distinct people, I’m not sure how the prohibition of eating cloven-hoofed animals does that. You’re general point is correct: Christians aren’t bound by the Mosaic dietary code. A lot of the sexuality code seems really weird when you make it about setting apart a chosen people, but makes sense when you get into epidemiology of STDs.
Our Lord put the subject of what goes in and what comes out of us quite clearly in Mark 7:9-23:
9 Then he said, “You reject God’s laws in order to hold on to your own traditions. 10 For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks evil of father or mother must be put to death.’ 11 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I could have given to you.’ 12 You let them disregard their needy parents. 13 As such, you break the law of God in order to protect your own tradition. And this is only one example. There are many, many others.”
14 Then Jesus called to the crowd to come and hear. “All of you listen,” he said, “and try to understand. 15 You are not defiled by what you eat; you are defiled by what you say and do!”
17 Then Jesus went into a house to get away from the crowds, and his disciples asked him what he meant by the statement he had made. 18 “Don’t you understand either?” he asked. “Can’t you see that what you eat won’t defile you? 19 Food doesn’t come in contact with your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then comes out again.” (By saying this, he showed that every kind of food is acceptable.) 20 And then he added, “It is the thought-life that defiles you. 21 For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, eagerness for lustful pleasure, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. 23 All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you and make you unacceptable to God.”
Oh, and the other selling point was J.O.'s sermon that if you are a good Christian, God will reward you with excellent parking.
That made me go "Hmmmmmm".
Actually, no one is bound by the Mosaic dietary code, because the ancient nation to whom it was given no longer exists. They ceased to be binding at the appearance of the One to whom all these laws pointed, Jesus Christ. Christ set aside the temporary aspects of the Mosaic (e.g., Levitical) code once for all time, since they had served their purpose in identifying the Messiah of the new covenant (cf. Hebrews 8:13). The Levitical priesthood (and all rites and practices associated with it) has been set aside in favor of the greater High Priest after the order of Melchizedek.
“And the Bible does not prohibit us from eating pork. At least not the New Testament, if he follows it’s teachings.”
Kinda, sorta.
Jewish converts to Christianity are encouraged to continue to follow the dietary restrictions of the Law, as most clearly noted in Acts 21:
When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly. 18The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. 19Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
20When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
26The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.”
As a complete aside, IMHO, “meat sacrificed to idols” would include Halal meat, as it is sacrificed to the pagan “god” allah.
Kosher meat, of course, is fine.
The problem is the single gut of the pig.
Pigs, rabbits, etc, don’t chew their cudd. That’s why they get worms. In a cow or the like, the multiple guts destroy the larvae.
I think that all the problems in the Middle East would just solve themselves if those people would just eat bacon.
Achmed: I’m going to ki....hey, what are you eating.
Jacob: Mmmph..bacon...chomp...
Achmed: You like bacon?!! I LIKE BACON!!
Jacob: Here...chew...chomp...have some bacon.
Achmed: Praise Allah thank you. You know...crisp...you’re not so bad after all....crunch...
WWBD?
I thought all the replacement theologians were executed at Nurenburg.
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