Replies

DU - "I have no idea where you got this certificate thing,"

TN - "Oh, it’s an important part of mormonism..."

No, it's not.

TN - "It’s one of the reasons mormons sing worship songs to Joseph smith..."

LOL! We do not sing or pray to Joseph Smith.

TN - "To keep in good with him..."

We don't have to get Joseph Smith to like us, all we need to do is keep the commandments of God that were relayed by him.

<Snip>

TN - "—JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224"

Which is not canon, therefore it is not doctrine.

TN - "On the other hand Christians have never made an idol of Joseph Smith and we know that it is Jesus who holds the keys of Hell and of Death."

Mormons know that too, Gee, I guess you are right, we're Christains too!

TN - "That means no devil can keep a Christian out of Heaven and force him or her to go to Hell..."

Never said he could.

TN - "Jesus alone controls that..."

Could not agree more, see my earlier post.
B tn - "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm"

TN - "Jesus never mentioned Joseph Smith..."

Nor did he mention you.

TN - "One of those cases of “I never knew you”

And now you speak for Jesus? Pot meet kettle

We don't have to get Joseph Smith to like us, all we need to do is keep the commandments of God that were relayed by him.

Then I guess these guys should be rebuked for teaching false teachings then.

Young said, "From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are -- I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent" (Journal of Discourses 7:289).

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by Joseph Smith; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him." -1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142, Apostle George Q. Cannon

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again." -Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" -Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation," -Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

If these people taught false doctrine on this issue, what other false doctrines did they teach?

TN - “It’s one of the reasons mormons sing worship songs to Joseph smith...”

DU - LOL! We do not sing or pray to Joseph Smith.
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And yet this “praise” song about Joseph Smith is a mormon favorite sang in most cult centers every week...

Hymn #27, “Praise To The Man”

1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah, Jesus anointed that prophet and seer. Blessed to open that last dispensation, Kings shall exalt him and nations revere!

Hail to the prophet, ascended to heaven. Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain. Mingling with Gods he can plan for his brethren; death cannot conquer the hero again.

2. Praise to his memory he died as a martyr. Honored and blest be his ever great name! Long shall his blood which was shed by assassins, plead unto heaven while the earth lauds his fame.

Hail to the prophet, ascended to heaven. Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain. Mingling with Gods he can plan for his brethren; death cannot conquer the hero again.

3. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood, Jesus anointed that prophet and seer. Ever and ever the keys he will hold. Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom, crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Hail to the prophet, ascended to heaven. Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain. Mingling with Gods he can plan for his brethren; death cannot conquer the hero again.

4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven; Earth must atone for the blood of that man. Wake up the world for the conflict of justice. Millions shall know Brother Joseph again.

Hail to the prophet, ascended to heaven. Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain. Mingling with Gods he can plan for his brethren; death cannot conquer the hero again.
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Well if that doesnt make Jopseph Smith equal to or greater than Jesus in the minds of the mormons, nothing does..

Hey DU where is this in the Bible ???

Hymn #51: Sons Of Michael

Sons of Michael, he approaches! Rise, the Eternal Father greet.
Bow, ye thousands, low before him; Minister before his feet.

DU I know mormons believe that God is Adam is Michael etc...

But Christains dont believe that

1. God is God...and always has been...God has never been a man...

2. Adam was the first man...created by God..but not begotten like Jesus was...Adam has never been a god and never will be a god...

3. Michael is an arch angel...a warring angel..created by God...Michael has never been a god nor a man...and never will be...

Thus God is not Adam nor Michael...

And never has been..