Posted on 12/25/2008 9:13:44 PM PST by restornu
In Joseph Smith's day some of the most prominent Americans were disgusted with the creeds of Christendom. Thomas Jefferson said:
I [Jefferson] am a real Christian, that is to say a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the preachers . . of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said or did.
They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man of which Jesus, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. . . . It is the speculations of crazy theologians which have made a Babel out of religion (Saul K. Padover, Thomas Jefferson on Democracy, 1939, pp. 122-123).
Writing to S. Hales in 1818, Jefferson wrote: "The truth is that Calvinism has introduced into the Christian religion more new absurdities than its leaders had purged it of old ones" (Ibid., p. 219).
On Jefferson's monument in Washington, D.C., is inscribed: "I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." If his complete quotation were on the monument it would bring out the fact that Jefferson was speaking against the dergy of his day (Ibid., p. 119).
Benjamin Franklin, replying to a letter from Ezra Styles, president of Yale, said shortly before his death:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left it to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes (Carl Van Doren, Benjamin Franklin, 1941, p. 777).
The first great work expressing the deistic feeling in America was Thomas Paine's Age of Reason, considered to have generated the greatest stir of any book of its day. It made clear that Paine was not an atheist as some claimed, but a deist because of the tyranny and bigotry he found in the existing churches (Thomas Paine, Age of Reason, 1793, p. 287).
Speaking of the period in America between 1670 and 1830, renowned theologian Paul Tillich has said, "First among the educated classes, then increasingly in the mass of industrial workers, religion lost its 'immediacy,' and it ceased to offer an unquestioned sense of direction and relevance to human living" (Roland N. Stromberg, Religious Liberalism, 1954, p. 1).
Carlyle has said of the Colonial Period: "An age fallen languid and destitute of faith and terrified of skepticism" (Ibid., p. ix).
Of this time Carl L. Becker has said, "What we have to realize is that in those years God was on trial" (Ibid., p. 1).
On another occasion, Thomas Jefferson said:
The impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who being themselves but fallible and uninspired men have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, have established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the earth (Peter H. Odegard, Religion and Politics, 1960, p. 110).
It is also true that in Colonial America only about 5 percent of the population belonged to any church and that those who did come to America for religious reasons did not come here initially to seek freedom of religion except for themselves. This is certainly an indictment against religion in Joseph Smith's day.
Peter Odegard also maintains this position:
Nowhere in the old world at the beginning of American colonization was there anything like religious toleration. . . . It is sad but not surprising to recall that even the religious dissenters who found refuge in America were, with notable exceptions, no more disposed toward toleration than the oppressors of the old world Obid., p. 9).
Historian William Warren Sweet says, "The rise of an intense anticlericalism was another cause of opposition to the churches." Further he relates: "The United States began as a free and independent nation with organized religion at a low ebb" (William Warren Sweet, Religion in the Development of American Culture, 1952, p. 92.).
You say there is only one God, he has only one begotten son. We know from the Bible Jesus is the Lord. You have also referenced the Holy Spirit
So is that a trinitarian slip?
As in all things there is reason for my query.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
You’re not a christian. why bother
Thank you but it is confusing if one uses himself in an a way as in post #173
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2154325/posts?page=173#173
I am going to say it again:
because JS made himself above Jesus Christ: lds is invalidated.
If you had replied "that statement is false" the discussion would stay on the issues.
By saying "you seem to need to spread this falsehood" the discussion turns away from the issue and to the poster himself, his motives, character, etc.
If not nipped in the bud, a flame way or childish posturing can result causing the thread to be locked, etc.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Why do you consider THIS hateful?
Well, they can still migrate to ANY islamic country and HAVE their MULTIPLE wives if they had any courage!
Someone's own WORDS bite them and they feel no pain!
You’re not a christian. why bother
There may be lurkers here that will be deceived by those 'churchs'.
It's your Christian duty to help them avoid the error; don't you think?
"I have found for myself that LDSism is untrue."
“I have found for myself that LDSism is untrue.”
________________________________________
I’ve known for 40 years that LDSism AKA mormonism is untrue
How could it be a “Trinitarian slip?”
The Bible plainly states that Jesus is the only Begotten Son of God and that he was visited by the Holy Spirit after his baptism by John the Baptist.
As Jesus was dying on the cross, he asked his Father to release him from the suffered. He couldn’t very well have prayed to himself.
Where do you find the inconsistency (if I may use that word?)
the suffered = the suffering
many people bickering is the fruit of this spirit
The Bible plainly states that Jesus is the only Begotten Son of God and that he was visited by the Holy Spirit after his baptism by John the Baptist.
_____________________________________________
NO it doesnt.....
In Joseph Smith’s day prominent (Citizens of Nauvoo,Ill) were disgusted with the creeds of Mormonism - and did something about it....
Cool. I’m not going to argue that point.
You can believe it if you want.
As Jesus was dying on the cross, he asked his Father to release him from the suffered
___________________________________________
NO He didnt...
OK. Again, you have the floor. Your logic escapes me, however. But that’s OK. you believe what you want it, but it won’t change the FACTS.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.