The cognitive disconnect of some who read the Bible and cannot understand the scriptures which plainly show that God and Christ are separate and distinct beings is amazing.
Luke 22:42 records a portion of Christ’s prayer to his Father in the Garden of Gethsemane and states: “Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”
Christ plainly states if it was His will, he would like to remove the cup, however, not His will be done, but the Father’s will be done. If they were ONE as trinitarians assert, there would be no conflicting “wills,” right?
When Christ was on the cross and they were casting lots for his robe, he stated in Luke 23:34: “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do .”
If Christ and the Father are one, he wouldn’t have to ask the Father to forgive them, He could simply have forgiven them Himself without asking the Father to do so. He could have simply said: “I forgive them, for they know not what they do.” The scripture only makes sense if Christ and the Father are one in purpose, but are separate and distinct beings.
Christ also said in Matt. 20:23 “And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, IS NOT MINE TO GIVE, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.”
If Christ and the Father are one in the trinitarian sense, Christ would be able to say who would be allowed to sit on his right and left hand. However, Christ states such privilege ISN’T HIS TO GIVE, but is only God’s to give.
Jesus taught one cannot pour new wine into old bottles. And so it is with many trinitarians. They are, sadly, too steeped in the traditions and creeds of men to have an open mind to discuss the Biblical scriptures that patently contradict the trinity creed.
How many Gods are there?
Is Jesus a Deity?
As we see in these threads again and again, TRINITY is up for discussion because the words seems to be confusing and contradictory.
What is VERY clear, however, in BOTH the BIBLE and BoM, is the COMMAND to have only ONE wife - and yet the founder of Mormonism ignored the command, and many subsequent leaders of the LDS church did the same.
Why?
Do you happen to know what a tesseract is? Do you know what a cube is, in relation to a tesseract? Do you know what a square is, in relation to a cube? ... Before you blaspheme any further denying the Godness of Jesus, the ONEness of Jesus with The Father and the Holy Spirit as shown in the Bible, think about how sqaures and cubes and tesseracts are related. Oh, and it might help you to know that a square could not sense the tesseract in which it is a portion. [Here’s a hint: a tesseract is a hypercube, and a cube is a hypersquare, and a square is a hyperline, and a line is a hyperpoint.]
The cognitive disconnect of some who read the Bible and cannot understand the scriptures which plainly show that God and Christ are separate and distinct beings is amazing. [CUH]
Being “separate and distinct” persons does not HAVE to equate to two separate and distinct “beings”.
Who is more one -- Jesus and His Father – or any mere mortal couple who is married? (I think if we asked 100 Mormons and 100 Historic Christians that question, we might get almost an unanimous answer of Jesus & His Father!)
Yet how did Jesus Christ describe such a married unit -- as one or as two (as CUH & Reno would have us all believe?):
4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6Wherefore they are NO MORE TWAIN, BUT ONE flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (Matthew 19:4-6)
Why did God create marriage? For a number of reasons. But one of the most important is that He creates humans in His own image, and His own image is compound unity. We, too, upon marriage are a compound unity. We are more than one in mere will and purpose (what Mormons try to reduce Jesus & the Father’s “unity” to). So how can a married unit be more one than Jesus and the Father???
Luke 22:42 records a portion of Christ’s prayer to his Father in the Garden of Gethsemane and states: “Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” Christ plainly states if it was His will, he would like to remove the cup, however, not His will be done, but the Father’s will be done. If they were ONE as trinitarians assert, there would be no conflicting “wills,” right? [CUH]
So now we have CUH & Reno showing their sheer audacity in preaching to Jesus Christ, “Nope, Jesus, you had it wrong in Matthew 19:4-6…’cause obviously, if what you said there was true – that a husband and wife are NO LONGER two, but only one, then how can that possibly be? I mean we see married folks not just during communion but ALL the time showing conflicting wills with one another. How could they possible be ‘no longer two’ as you say if their wills are two? Nope, Jesus, you’re wrong. Just ‘fess it up. We’re in the know.”
When Christ was on the cross and they were casting lots for his robe, he stated in Luke 23:34: “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.” If Christ and the Father are one, he wouldn’t have to ask the Father to forgive them, He could simply have forgiven them Himself without asking the Father to do so. He could have simply said: “I forgive them, for they know not what they do.” The scripture only makes sense if Christ and the Father are one in purpose, but are separate and distinct beings.[CUH]
Wow! Reno thinks this is ”insightful” when even from a human vantage point, let alone divine, it wouldn’t even get by the host of America’s Most Wanted TV show? Imagine you’re somebody like John Walsh. Imagine your little boy (like Walsh’s) has been murdered. Imagine that as that little boy lies dying on his death bed, he asks his daddy to forgive his attackers.
Why, then CUH & Reno would come bargin’ into the hospital room & proclaim the kid’s “forgiveness theology” is all messed up. “No, no, no. You’ve got it wrong, little boy. Doncha know you’re supposed forgive them yourself? You’re not even a married couple, let alone the Trinitarian God. You’re a separate & distinct entity from your father. So just forgive them yourself, and let it be done with that…Gotta run…there’s other poor ‘forgiveness theology’ of Jesus that others are repeating online & we gotta go correct Him and them.”
You commit here the error of assumption. You assume that Jesus did not forgive them of His own volition, quietly, like the Old Testament, says, like Isaiah who said He went quietly like a lamb to the slaughter. And there would be nothin’ wrong with a son asking His father to join Him in that forgiveness – whether they the most reconciled human father-son family possible or whether they were the most split-apart father-son family.
Christ also said in Matt. 20:23 “And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, IS NOT MINE TO GIVE, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.” [CUH]
So, you’re saying that if the Trinitarian God is true, that the Father could NEVER give anything He wanted to His Son?
That the Father could NEVER give the Son any special “work” to do as mentioned in John 17:4 (like dying a cross, that the Father was only supposed to do this Himself?)
That the Father could NEVER give the Son any words or language of endearment (John 17:8) because in your humble opinion why that’d just be God mumbling to Himself?
That the Father could NEVER give the Son any disciples as followers (John 17:12)?
That the Father could NEVER give the Son any specialized authority (Matt. 28:18) even though some of that authority was already being counter-claimed by Satan the usurper as lord of the earth and needed to be dealt with directly by Christ as Victor to once & for all take away all the claims of the enemy the accuser?
See, that’s the problem you have. You don’t have a three-dimensional-tri-personal single God, you have a one-dimensional personality you keep thinking about. The problem isn’t the “Trinity,” it’s your caricature of Him!
If Christ and the Father are one in the trinitarian sense, Christ would be able to say who would be allowed to sit on his right and left hand. [CUH]
Another error of assumption. You will notice He said that prior to His glorified resurrection. After the resurrection, He proclaimed that “all authority” had THENCE been given to Him.
However, Christ states such privilege ISN’T HIS TO GIVE, but is only God’s to give.
And the Father did give Him such authority in Matthew 28:18. Prior to His resurrection, Philippians 2 sizes up what Jesus had deliberately emptied Himself of:
…Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name, (Phil. 2:5-9)
The word “nothing” there in the Greek is kenosis -- which means to “empty.” Jesus deliberately emptied Himself in grasping after everything that was His by divine right & elected to totally rely upon the Father and the Holy Spirit because that’s what He's always intended for mankind to do all along.