Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

An open letter to Mr. Stephen A. Baldwin, Actor, and “born again” Christian.
The Evangelization Station ^ | Victor R. Claveau, MJ

Posted on 08/11/2008 4:58:31 PM PDT by annalex

An open letter to Mr. Stephen A. Baldwin, Actor, and “born again” Christian.

Dear Mr. Baldwin,

Praise God, you have become a strong voice in winning souls for Jesus as one who has experienced the saving grace of the Redeemer. May you always use your notoriety to spread the Good News.

It has been my experience that when an individual submits themselves to Christ, they undergo a deep conversion of heart. A tremendous weight is lifted, and they receive a sense of inner peace and joy. There is also the need to share this wonderful experience with others in the hope that they too will come to know Him intimately.

“Jesus said to them, … “For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:40).

What an extraordinary promise — Believe in Him and we will have eternal life.

But, what does it mean to truly believe in Him? Does it not mean that we must believe that everything He said is true? Does it not mean that we must be in total submission to His will in our lives? Does it not mean that we must obey His every command?

Many Christians believe that when Jesus died on the Cross he paid the ultimate price for all of man’s sins and therefore nothing is required of us except making a “personal commitment to a personal savior.” Let’s take a more in-depth look at what the New Testament Scriptures teach on this subject.

Belief is necessary.

Rom. 10:9, “Because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

We must do God’s will.

Matt 7:21, "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

We must obey Jesus.

John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.”

Baptism is necessary for salvation.

John 3:5, “Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

See also: Mark 16:16; Titus 3:5-8.

We must also love God completely and our neighbor as ourselves.

Luke 10: 25-28, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read?" And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself." And he said to him, "You have answered right; do this, and you will live."

We must keep the Commandments.

John 14:15, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.”

See also: Matt. 19:16-17,

Good works are necessary for salvation.

Romans 2:7, “For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.”

See also: James 2:14,26; Phil 2:12.

We must hold out to the end.

2 Tim 2:12-13, “If we endure, we shall also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; if we are faithless, he remains faithful-- for he cannot deny himself.”

See also: Mark 13: 13; 1 Cor 10:12, 27.

I write to you as one Christian to another in order to share with you the opportunity to experience a deeper dimension of intimacy with our Lord and Savior.

We must also eat His body and drink His blood.

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever." (John 53-59).

Would Jesus command us to do something impossible? Jesus would have had to have made some provision for His followers to carry out the command to “eat His flesh and drink His blood”.

One of the fundamental differences between Catholics and the hundreds of different denominations is how the above verses are understood.

Isn't it true that all Christians are taught to interpret the Bible literally, except where the use of symbolic or figurative language is obvious? So the issue is: “Did Jesus really mean that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood?”

“The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” (John 6:52).

The fact that the Jews questioned the words of Jesus tells us that they understood Jesus’ words literally.

The Catholic Church has always taught that Jesus was speaking literally, and this can it be proved by the Bible and Church history.

Let us begin with the creation story in Genesis 1:1-31:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

And God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." And God made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so.

And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.

And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, and let them be lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth." And it was so.

And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so.

Everything God said came to pass.

"So shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and prosper in the thing for which I sent it” (Isaiah 55:11).

Jesus, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, is the Word, and the Word was and is God (John 1:1).

As God, Jesus performed numerous miracles. He cured the sick, gave sight to the blind, made the deaf to hear, and raised people from the dead. Whatever he declared came to pass.

Jesus declared that His flesh is real food: “I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh" "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed” (Jn. 6:51; 53-55).

During the Last Supper, as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples saying, "This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me." And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you” (Lk. 22:19-20).

Who, not what, was Jesus holding in His sacred hands at that moment? He was holding Himself! At that moment, the bread became His Body, simply because He said it was His Body.

He then took a cup of wine and declared it to be His Blood.

Once again, Jesus held Himself in His own hands! At that moment, the wine became His Blood, simply because He said it was so.

I repeat, As soon as he declared the bread and wine to be His Body and Blood, they became His Body and Blood. As you may know, Catholics call this food Eucharist.

He then commanded His disciples to do the same, “Do this in remembrance of me”, thereby empowering them to do so. This was the beginning of the New Covenant Priesthood.

St. Paul was certainly a believer in the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist:

And St. Paul said, “The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?” (1 Cor. 10:16-17).

And St. Paul said, “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord” (1 Cor. 11:27).

And the Early Church Fathers said,

Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple of the Apostle John for over thirty years, before suffering a martyr’s death in the arena in Rome.

And St. Ignatius of Antioch said, “Pay close attention to those who have wrong notions about the grace of Jesus Christ, which has come to us, and note how at variance they are with God's mind. They care nothing about love: they have no concern for widows or orphans, for the oppressed, for those in prison or released, for the hungry or the thirsty. They hold aloof from the Eucharist and from services of prayer, because they refuse to admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins and which, in his goodness, the Father raised [from the dead]. Consequently those who wrangle and dispute God's gift face death” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 6, 19-20, [ca. A. D. 104 / 107]).

And St. Ignatius of Antioch said, “You should regard that Eucharist as valid which is celebrated either by the bishop or by someone he authorizes. Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”. (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 8, [ca. A. D. 104 / 107]).

And St. Ignatius of Antioch said, “Be careful, then, to observe a single Eucharist. For there is one flesh of our Lord, Jesus Christ, and one cup of his blood that makes us one, and one altar, just as there is one bishop along with the presbytery and the deacons, my fellow slaves. In that way whatever you do is in line with God's will” (Letter to the Philadelphians, 4, [ca. A. D. 104 / 107]).

And St. Ignatius of Antioch said, “Try to gather together more frequently to celebrate God's Eucharist and to praise him. For when you meet with frequency, Satan's powers are overthrown and his destructiveness is undone by the unanimity of your faith” (Letter to the Ephesians, 13, [ca. A. D. 104 / 107]).

The Teaching:

“You must not let anyone eat or drink of your Eucharist except those baptized in the Lord's name. For in reference to this the Lord said, ‘Do not give what is sacred to dogs’" (The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, Commonly Called the Didache, [ca. 70 / 80 A. D.]).

St. Justin Martyr:

Justin Martyr, an early Church Father (105-165 A. D.) is the first person to furnish us with a complete description of the Eucharistic celebration (c. 150). He speaks of it twice, first in regard to the newly-baptized and secondly in regard to the Sunday celebration.

And St. Justin Martyr said, “But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to ge'noito [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion” (I Apol. 65).

Justin goes on to specify that the bread that has been consecrated by the prayer formed from the words of Christ.

“And this food is called among us Eucharisti'a [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Savior, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn” (I Apol. 66).

A second description of the Eucharist complementing the first is found a little later in his Apology with regard to the Sunday liturgy.

“And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succors the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration” (I Apol. 67).

St. Irenaeus of Lyons

And St. Irenaeus of Lyons said, “And just as the wooden branch of the vine, placed in the earth, bears fruit in its own time-and as the grain of wheat, falling into the ground and there dissolved, rises with great increase by the Spirit of God, who sustains all things, and then by the wisdom of God serves for the use of men, and when it receives the Word of God becomes the Eucharist, which is the body and blood of Christ-so also our bodies which are nourished by it, and then fall into the earth and are dissolved therein, shall rise at the proper time, the Word of God bestowing on them this rising again, to the glory of God the Father” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, [Inter A. D. 180 / 190]).

It is clear from the words of Jesus, St. Paul, and the Early Church Fathers that Jesus meant it when He said that we must eat His body and drink His blood.

There is an avalanche of evidence is support of the Catholic understanding and absolutely none to support the Protestant contention. Jesus was not speaking symbolically. The only refutation offered by Protestantism is opinion, as no proof exists.

To be fully Christian is to believe in these words of Jesus and come home to the Catholic Church. There is no greater intimacy than eating His flesh and drinking his blood.

I invite you return to your Catholic roots and invite all “Bible Christians” to explore the truth of Catholicism.

Jesus came that we may have life, and have it abundantly. This can only be fully experienced in the Catholic Church.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of Christian service.

In the Sacred Heart of Jesus,

Victor R. Claveau, MJ

760-220-6818


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian
KEYWORDS: catholic; davidcloud; ecumenism; evangelical; stephenbaldwin
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 341-360361-380381-400 ... 441-460 next last
To: annalex

Christ knows us before the foundations of the world were laid. He doesn’t need the rite of baptism to know His children. He always has.


361 posted on 08/14/2008 6:40:58 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 343 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

You’ve got no idea of the power of John 3:16. You’re showing me nothing. If you did, you wouldn’t have to work for your salvation. Christ dying wasn’t enough for you.

Rom 11:6 “And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.”

John 3:3 I know you have be born again (i.e. spiritual birth) as opposed to a physical birth.

You have to understand Christ had not sacrificed Himself for us on the Cross yet. Baptism was followed by repentence. And baptism was a form of purification.

And, no, not all the disciples were Jews. Luke supposedly was a Gentile. And it helped that most were Jews so they could deal with the Jewish converts. And this was all part of God’s plan. You think He (God) made a mistake?

In a sense they’re God’s chosen people? Either they are or they aren’t. I made no implication that they were better than anyone else.

I did deal with verses. You chose to discount my response because it didn’t fall into line with your way of thinking.

And I never implied that I “felt” saved. I base my salvation on faith. You may or may not “feel” saved. For me emotion doesn’t dictate what I believe.

I agree. The Bride of Christ is the Church. The True Church of Christ, which is the whole body of believers.

Again, the dig at Protestants. Because they didn’t want to subject themselves to human traditions in the Catholic church? They wanted the scriptures to be the basis for their belief? That doesn’t sound so awful, does it?

I agree with you again. People can fool themselves.

I will leave you with this:

“Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.

Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will
never count against him.”


362 posted on 08/14/2008 7:02:24 PM PDT by Not just another dumb blonde
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 357 | View Replies]

To: Marysecretary

You wrote:

“Vlad, that’s not true.”

Yes, it is.

“Jesus was a Jew.”

And a Catholic.

“He lived a Jew and died one.”

And He was a Catholic.

“He was never Catholic and neither were the gospel writers.”

They were all Catholics.

“It’s all wishful thinking on the part of Catholics.”

No, it’s just true.


363 posted on 08/14/2008 7:06:59 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 359 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

You got me there.....where did I put my greek Bible?


364 posted on 08/14/2008 7:10:18 PM PDT by Not just another dumb blonde
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 358 | View Replies]

To: Marysecretary

You wrote:

“I was trying to find SOMETHING we agreed on. Lighten up, my FRiend.”

I don’t think these issues are about levity.

“We both have our own version of Truth and neither one of us is going to give in. Let God judge.”

I don’t have a version of the Truth - I just follow the Truth: there’s one Christ and one Church. God has already judged.


365 posted on 08/14/2008 7:16:10 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 360 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

Vlad, I follow the truth as well. Don’t let arrogance creep in to these conversations. You’re above that. Scripture is the truth. The church follows some scripture, some traditions of men. You don’t know what their truth really is unless it’s scriptural, and you can interpret scripture without a group of men telling you what it is.


366 posted on 08/14/2008 7:20:12 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 365 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

Oh, dear FRiend. You’ve really been sold a bill of goods, haven’t you?


367 posted on 08/14/2008 7:21:45 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 363 | View Replies]

To: Marysecretary

All the best to you, too. It is good te be mutually understood.


368 posted on 08/14/2008 7:44:56 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 345 | View Replies]

To: Not just another dumb blonde

The deposit of faith does not change and cannot change. Things that can change, and sometimes need to change are how the Church responds to the changed world. For example, when the Church became powerful and wealthy in the Middle Ages, the emphasis on monasticism and self-giving became needed and St. Fransis supplied it. When the Protestant Reformation happened, the doctrines they questioned needed to be clarified and we had the Council of Trent. When materialism ans secularism became the force of the day, we had Vatican I and the wrok of Leo XIII. When Latin stopped being universally recognized language, worship in the vernacular languages had to develop and we had Vatican II. Now we have a sexual revolution and its evil fruit; this necessitated developemnt of theology of the body that uphold the biblical values.


369 posted on 08/14/2008 7:50:57 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 356 | View Replies]

To: Not just another dumb blonde

You wrote:

“You’ve got no idea of the power of John 3:16. You’re showing me nothing. If you did, you wouldn’t have to work for your salvation. Christ dying wasn’t enough for you.”

Again, your wrong. 1) I DO KNOW of the power of John 3:16. I know it better than you because I don’t twist the verse out of context as you do. 2) I don’t work for my salvation. Christ did. I’ve told that to you now three times, and yet you keep bearing false witness. Why? 3) Christ dying was enough to create the grace I need, but if I don’t accept Christ I am doomed as are you if you don’t accept Him. It’s almost as if you believe someone can be saved without believing or obeying Christ!

“Rom 11:6 “And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.”

St. Paul is talking about works of the Mosaic Law. I have nothing whatsoever to do with those works. Nothing!

“John 3:3 I know you have be born again (i.e. spiritual birth) as opposed to a physical birth.”

Spiritual rebirth is through baptism which comes from Christ on the cross. Again, you completely ignore that fact that I long ago posted Romans 6:3. You keep setting up verses in opposition to one another and don’t even realize it.

“You have to understand Christ had not sacrificed Himself for us on the Cross yet. Baptism was followed by repentence. And baptism was a form of purification.”

Did Moses go to heaven? According to your paragraph above he could not have gone. Do you know why? You’re assuming that Chirst’s sacrifice on the cross was limited by time and space. We don’t believe that at all. We know the real power of Christ’s sacrifice. We know it was so powerful that it saved even those patriarchs who came into this world BEFORE Christ. And Baptism is a form of purification - of the soul. Again, Acts 22:16.

“And, no, not all the disciples were Jews.”

Yes, they were.

“Luke supposedly was a Gentile.”

Luke was not part of the original 70 disciples. He was a disciple of Paul. This is absolutely clear from the fact that Luke, himself, when he doesn’t say anything about ever being an eyewitness to Chirst as all the original Disciples had been. St. Paul was NOT one of the original Apostles either.

“And it helped that most were Jews so they could deal with the Jewish converts.”

All of the original disciples were Jews. Remember, Jesus came for the Jews FIRST.

“And this was all part of God’s plan. You think He (God) made a mistake?”

No. Nor have I ever suggested He has. Why do you continue to make up these bizarre things?

“In a sense they’re God’s chosen people? Either they are or they aren’t. I made no implication that they were better than anyone else.”

I didn’t say you did. In a sense they are the Chosen People, but they are not the Bride of Christ, nor are they the Body of Christ. Christ came to them and many rejected Him. They still have chances to accept Him, however. Christians are - according to the Bible - elect and chosen: Romans 8:33, 11:5, Colossians 3:12, 1 Peter 2:9.

“I did deal with verses.”

Untrue. Where did you ever deal with Acts 22:16? Where did you ever deal with Romans 6:3? You never did.

“You chose to discount my response because it didn’t fall into line with your way of thinking.”

No. You rarely if ever dealt with the verses I posted. The list is now to long for me to recall and post here, but there were a number of verses and you ignored almost every single one of them if not every one of them. You offered no alternative explanation to them that actually examined the verses.

“And I never implied that I “felt” saved.”

I didn’t say you did. You feel you are saved. I didn’t say you agreed. That’s just the fact of the matter because you can’t present any logical evidence to suggest you are saved. Since you can neither document it, nor even build a logical argument for it, it is just a feeling even if you deny it.

“I base my salvation on faith. You may or may not “feel” saved. For me emotion doesn’t dictate what I believe.”

So far you have admitted that your feelings dictate how you post and how you act. That’s why you apologized to me. I have no reason, therefore, to think your feelings do not dictate what you believe because what you believe clearly has an enormous influence on what you post and how you act.

“I agree. The Bride of Christ is the Church. The True Church of Christ, which is the whole body of believers.”

No. The body of believers were ALL Catholic at Pentecost. Since then there are sects. They are made up of Christians, they’re believers, but they are not in the Body.

“Again, the dig at Protestants. Because they didn’t want to subject themselves to human traditions in the Catholic church?”

Protestantism IS A HUMAN TRADITION. It was started in 1517 by Martin Luther. Not Christ. Not God the Father. Martin Luther. Protestantism is a human tradition. That’s no dig. That’s just the painful truth. Protestantism was started by Martin Luther - not Christ.

“They wanted the scriptures to be the basis for their belief? That doesn’t sound so awful, does it?”

They never took the scriptures are their basis and still don’t. All Protestants use their intellect, feelings, moods, drives, faith, and so on to translate, edit, and interpret the scriptures. That’s why the Protestants DON’T AGREE AND CAN NEVER AGREE AMONG THEMSELVES. Lutherans baptize children. Baptists don’t. Who is right? They both claim to use the Bible alone too.

“I agree with you again. People can fool themselves.”

And that must mean that Protestants fool each other because either Lutherans or Baptists are right, but both can’t be right.

“I will leave you with this:“Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven,whose sins are covered.Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him.””

And we know how that is done: Acts 22:16 and John 20:19-23.


370 posted on 08/14/2008 8:04:02 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 362 | View Replies]

To: Marysecretary

You wrote:

“Vlad, I follow the truth as well.”

No. We can’t disagree but both be right. Therefore, one of us is wrong and it isn’t me.

“Don’t let arrogance creep in to these conversations.”

Truth is not arrogance.

“You’re above that.”

I hope so, but what I am is not going to make the mistake of assuming Truth is arrogance.

“Scripture is the truth.”

The Truth is Christ. (John 14:6) Scripture is true, but it is not the only true thing.

“The church follows some scripture, some traditions of men.”

No. The Church follows the Truth - Who is a Person, Christ. He sent the Church and the Church wrote scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

“You don’t know what their truth really is unless it’s scriptural, and you can interpret scripture without a group of men telling you what it is.”

Wow. Show me the verse that tells you what books belong in the Bible. Oh, that’s right. There isn’t one. So much for your idea. And yes, anyone can interpret scripture, but notice how that has led to endless competing interpretations. Right, it’s been a failure. It isn’t because of the Holy Spirit. It’s because of men. Protestantism is a man made tradition.


371 posted on 08/14/2008 8:11:44 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 366 | View Replies]

To: Marysecretary

You wrote:

“Oh, dear FRiend. You’ve really been sold a bill of goods, haven’t you?”

No, I’m not a Protestant.


372 posted on 08/14/2008 8:13:04 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 367 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

No, unfortunately, you are not.


373 posted on 08/14/2008 8:24:35 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 372 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

Catholicism is also a man made tradition. Get out from amongst her before it’s too late.


374 posted on 08/14/2008 8:25:34 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 371 | View Replies]

To: annalex

Yes, it is.


375 posted on 08/14/2008 8:27:57 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 368 | View Replies]

To: Marysecretary

You wrote:

“No, unfortunately, you are not.”

No, fortunately, I am not. I was saved from that error laden, man made collection of sects. I have always been in the body of Christ instead. Praise God!


376 posted on 08/14/2008 8:29:53 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 373 | View Replies]

To: Marysecretary

You wrote:

“Catholicism is also a man made tradition.”

Wait. “Also” ? You mean you are acknowledging that Protestantism is man made? Thanks!

“Get out from amongst her before it’s too late.”

I have no reason to leave Christ’s Body for your man made (as you just admitted) sects.


377 posted on 08/14/2008 8:31:38 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 374 | View Replies]

To: Marysecretary

OK.

Maybe I can look at it tomorrow or Sat.

Thanks.


378 posted on 08/14/2008 8:53:51 PM PDT by Quix (key QUOTES POLS 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 334 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

I started out responding to your last post, and decided there’s no use. You’ve got me pegged as a heretic and are treating me like one too. It’s ok for you to be offensive, but cry foul when someone throws something back at you. I apologized to you for being out of line. At least I was man enough, so to speak, to do that.

You posted so many words you don’t even know exactly what you posted. You tell me you didn’t say this or that, when you did. I don’t feel the need to perpetuate a discussion with someone who’s not willing to admit they said something.

You denied many things you did say. You go right ahead and pounce on the next person, you seem to get some sort of charge out of it. You presumed many things about me, you don’t even know me, but yet you have the audacity to tell me what I’m thinking and feeling. It’s a losing battle talking to you....you’re right and everyone else is wrong. How can everyone else be wrong? You misconstrue what’s being said to your own bend.

I have tried being what Christ wants me to be with you, but I’m no saint. First, you insult my intelligence by insinuating I don’t know this verse or that verse. I don’t have them all memorized. Yes, I do read the Bible. You are gonna believe what your church says to believe. I am going to believe what the Bible says. I did deal with verses that were posted, it just suits your purpose to say I didn’t.

I am willing to admit when I’m wrong, you are not. I know, because your never wrong, right? All you’ve said to me is “no, NO, wrong. You responded with a sanctimonious attitude, that is a turn-off for a christian, just think about that lost soul you’re winning to Christ.


379 posted on 08/14/2008 9:05:07 PM PDT by Not just another dumb blonde
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 370 | View Replies]

To: Not just another dumb blonde; vladimir998

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.


380 posted on 08/14/2008 9:26:32 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 379 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 341-360361-380381-400 ... 441-460 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson