An open letter to Mr. Stephen A. Baldwin, Actor, and “born again” Christian.

Praise God, you have become a strong voice in winning souls for Jesus as one who has experienced the saving grace of the Redeemer. May you always use your notoriety to spread the Good News.

It has been my experience that when an individual submits themselves to Christ, they undergo a deep conversion of heart. A tremendous weight is lifted, and they receive a sense of inner peace and joy. There is also the need to share this wonderful experience with others in the hope that they too will come to know Him intimately.

“Jesus said to them, … “For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:40).

But, what does it mean to truly believe in Him? Does it not mean that we must believe that everything He said is true? Does it not mean that we must be in total submission to His will in our lives? Does it not mean that we must obey His every command?

Many Christians believe that when Jesus died on the Cross he paid the ultimate price for all of man’s sins and therefore nothing is required of us except making a “personal commitment to a personal savior.” Let’s take a more in-depth look at what the New Testament Scriptures teach on this subject.

Rom. 10:9, “Because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Matt 7:21, "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.”

John 3:5, “Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Luke 10: 25-28, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read?" And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself." And he said to him, "You have answered right; do this, and you will live."

Romans 2:7, “For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.”

2 Tim 2:12-13, “If we endure, we shall also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; if we are faithless, he remains faithful-- for he cannot deny himself.”

I write to you as one Christian to another in order to share with you the opportunity to experience a deeper dimension of intimacy with our Lord and Savior.

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever." (John 53-59).

Would Jesus command us to do something impossible? Jesus would have had to have made some provision for His followers to carry out the command to “eat His flesh and drink His blood”.

One of the fundamental differences between Catholics and the hundreds of different denominations is how the above verses are understood.

Isn't it true that all Christians are taught to interpret the Bible literally, except where the use of symbolic or figurative language is obvious? So the issue is: “Did Jesus really mean that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood?”

“The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” (John 6:52).

The fact that the Jews questioned the words of Jesus tells us that they understood Jesus’ words literally.

The Catholic Church has always taught that Jesus was speaking literally, and this can it be proved by the Bible and Church history.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

And God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." And God made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so.

And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.

And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, and let them be lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth." And it was so.

And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so.

"So shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and prosper in the thing for which I sent it” (Isaiah 55:11).

Jesus, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, is the Word, and the Word was and is God (John 1:1).

As God, Jesus performed numerous miracles. He cured the sick, gave sight to the blind, made the deaf to hear, and raised people from the dead. Whatever he declared came to pass.

Jesus declared that His flesh is real food: “I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh" "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed” (Jn. 6:51; 53-55).

During the Last Supper, as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples saying, "This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me." And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you” (Lk. 22:19-20).

Who, not what, was Jesus holding in His sacred hands at that moment? He was holding Himself! At that moment, the bread became His Body, simply because He said it was His Body.

Once again, Jesus held Himself in His own hands! At that moment, the wine became His Blood, simply because He said it was so.

I repeat, As soon as he declared the bread and wine to be His Body and Blood, they became His Body and Blood. As you may know, Catholics call this food Eucharist.

He then commanded His disciples to do the same, “Do this in remembrance of me”, thereby empowering them to do so. This was the beginning of the New Covenant Priesthood.

St. Paul was certainly a believer in the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist:

And St. Paul said, “The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?” (1 Cor. 10:16-17).

And St. Paul said, “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord” (1 Cor. 11:27).

Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple of the Apostle John for over thirty years, before suffering a martyr’s death in the arena in Rome.

And St. Ignatius of Antioch said, “Pay close attention to those who have wrong notions about the grace of Jesus Christ, which has come to us, and note how at variance they are with God's mind. They care nothing about love: they have no concern for widows or orphans, for the oppressed, for those in prison or released, for the hungry or the thirsty. They hold aloof from the Eucharist and from services of prayer, because they refuse to admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins and which, in his goodness, the Father raised [from the dead]. Consequently those who wrangle and dispute God's gift face death” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 6, 19-20, [ca. A. D. 104 / 107]).

And St. Ignatius of Antioch said, “You should regard that Eucharist as valid which is celebrated either by the bishop or by someone he authorizes. Where the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”. (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 8, [ca. A. D. 104 / 107]).

And St. Ignatius of Antioch said, “Be careful, then, to observe a single Eucharist. For there is one flesh of our Lord, Jesus Christ, and one cup of his blood that makes us one, and one altar, just as there is one bishop along with the presbytery and the deacons, my fellow slaves. In that way whatever you do is in line with God's will” (Letter to the Philadelphians, 4, [ca. A. D. 104 / 107]).

And St. Ignatius of Antioch said, “Try to gather together more frequently to celebrate God's Eucharist and to praise him. For when you meet with frequency, Satan's powers are overthrown and his destructiveness is undone by the unanimity of your faith” (Letter to the Ephesians, 13, [ca. A. D. 104 / 107]).

“You must not let anyone eat or drink of your Eucharist except those baptized in the Lord's name. For in reference to this the Lord said, ‘Do not give what is sacred to dogs’" (The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, Commonly Called the Didache, [ca. 70 / 80 A. D.]).

Justin Martyr, an early Church Father (105-165 A. D.) is the first person to furnish us with a complete description of the Eucharistic celebration (c. 150). He speaks of it twice, first in regard to the newly-baptized and secondly in regard to the Sunday celebration.

And St. Justin Martyr said, “But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to ge'noito [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion” (I Apol. 65).

Justin goes on to specify that the bread that has been consecrated by the prayer formed from the words of Christ.

“And this food is called among us Eucharisti'a [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Savior, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn” (I Apol. 66).

A second description of the Eucharist complementing the first is found a little later in his Apology with regard to the Sunday liturgy.

“And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succors the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration” (I Apol. 67).

And St. Irenaeus of Lyons said, “And just as the wooden branch of the vine, placed in the earth, bears fruit in its own time-and as the grain of wheat, falling into the ground and there dissolved, rises with great increase by the Spirit of God, who sustains all things, and then by the wisdom of God serves for the use of men, and when it receives the Word of God becomes the Eucharist, which is the body and blood of Christ-so also our bodies which are nourished by it, and then fall into the earth and are dissolved therein, shall rise at the proper time, the Word of God bestowing on them this rising again, to the glory of God the Father” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, [Inter A. D. 180 / 190]).

It is clear from the words of Jesus, St. Paul, and the Early Church Fathers that Jesus meant it when He said that we must eat His body and drink His blood.

There is an avalanche of evidence is support of the Catholic understanding and absolutely none to support the Protestant contention. Jesus was not speaking symbolically. The only refutation offered by Protestantism is opinion, as no proof exists.

To be fully Christian is to believe in these words of Jesus and come home to the Catholic Church. There is no greater intimacy than eating His flesh and drinking his blood.

I invite you return to your Catholic roots and invite all “Bible Christians” to explore the truth of Catholicism.

Jesus came that we may have life, and have it abundantly. This can only be fully experienced in the Catholic Church.

You wrote:

“Baptism does not wash away our sins, belief in Christ does. Quote the scripture that says baptism washes away sin, please.”

Acts 22:16, 1 Peter 3:19-20.

“Baptism is symbolic of Christ dying and raising from the dead. Gettin baptized is a public observance of our conversion.”

No. Baptism is a sign of OUR dying with Christ and OUR rising with Him into a new life. That’s exactly what Colossians 2:12 says by the way.

“YOu said it yourself. Different churches battle over what the Bible says, so, in a nutshell, religion is divisive.”

No. False conclusions and opinions are divisive.

“Why would you need to minister to other believers?”

Why would I not?

Why not take it to the streets and minister there?”
I do.

“As far as believing the Bible being inspired by God, I take that on faith.”

Okay, but where in the Bible does it say that Matthew is inspired? How do you even know – according to the Bible alone – what books are supposed to be in the Bible? You really have no idea do you?

“I truly believe that the Catholic church is not where God wants me to be.”

I’m not surprised. I don’t think you’re open to the truth right now.

“FYI it is the Holy Spirit living within us that convicts us when we do something wrong. Hence the verse about grieving the Holy Spirit.”

I understand, but that doesn’t help in any way when you have to so-called Bible believing Protestants coming to opposite conclusions now does it?

“Let’s face it the only thing you’ve got to back up your argument is church doctrine. No scripture.”

Wrong. Deal with the verses I posted. Can you? You didn’t even know about Colossians 2:12 did you?

“Hello!! Some of Christ’s disciples were Jews, not Catholics.”

All of Christ’s faithful disciples were Catholics. Originally they were indeed Jews. Then they discovered the Messiah and believed in Him. Christ founded the Catholic Church for them.

“What makes you think I make up christianity as I go? Listen to yourself. Do you know haughtiness is one of the seven deadly sins? Just ask Lucifer.”

I don’t talk to Lucifer. Do you? Also, I am not being haughty, just truthful. And if you have enough courage to admit you didn’t about or didn’t remember that Colossians verse then you would have to admit you made up an idea or adopted an idea that was untrue.

“They condemn pedophilia? Right.”

The Church has always condemned sexual sin.

“What do they do when sexual abuse happens, they cart him off to another church to do some more damage there.”

The Church does no such thing – but some bishops did. I do not make the mistake of confusing the Church with a relative handful of bishops who defied Church teaching and practice. You, however, make that mistake just as you write “they” when we are not talking about a plural. The Church is singular.

“This mentality is unacceptable. They should strip him of his title, and file criminal charges against him.”

The Church cannot file criminal charges against anyone. It is not the civil or criminal law. And all priests who have committed such sins are in fact stripped of their positions.

“Look at how much it cost the church, monetarily speaking, all the lawsuits, and it all could have been avoided.”

Absolutely. But men sin. The Church doesn’t.

“You don’t send an alcoholic to tend bar anymore than commonsense tells you to put a pedophile with children.”

I agree. You also don’t confuse the Church – which is the immaculate bride of Christ. Are you familiar with Ephesians 5: 25-27?

“The church is responsible for the Priests actions.”

No. Some bishops and the priests themselves are responsible. The Church did nothing wrong.

“Again with the dig about my christianity. I’m willing to bet my husband’s pay that you don’t win too many to Christ.”

Oh, you’d be very surprised. Also, stating the truth about your approach to Christianity is not a dig.

“So it’s okay for me to read the Bible? Goody, goody. I know, it’s a last resort (smothered in sarcasm)reading that pesky Bible, and me, a commoner at that. Well, I think that if the Caltholic church can skew the scriptures to their way of thinking and try and justify their way of believing, so can I. How dare you question my faith.”

I never once questioned your faith. Feel free to attack what I say, but at least attack what I actually say and not just make things up. I NEVER questioned your faith.

“Be careful, God has a thing about a prideful person, He might just take you down a peg or two or three.”

God might take me down for many things. I am a sinner as are you and all the rest here. I have no doubt that I am a sinner. Why do you act as if you aren’t one too?

“I just had an epiphany. I now know why you think I need the Catholic church, more money to pay for all those lawsuits you’ve got going from all those pedophiles. See what it’s like to have someone bring your integrity into question.”

Where are you getting these bizarre ideas? I do not remember calling into question your integrity. What I did do was point out your mistakes. Did I even use the word integrity anywhere with you? In what post? Also, your bizarre idea of joining the Church to only pay off lawsuits is exactly that bizarre. Guess how much I’ve had to pay off into lawsuits since this whole crisis came to light in the MSM? Zilch. There have been zero lawsuits in my diocese. ZERO. It alls depends on the bishop. We have good ones. They follow Church teaching. ZERO cases. ZERO lawsuits since all this opened and before that I don’t know because I didn’t live here.

“Only applying what would be comfortable for me, is that right?”

Yes.

“Then I’m doing something wrong because my life is less than comfortable, but then I guess you know better than I, since you are all knowing.”

Okay, let’s try these on for size: birth control. The Bible – according to all Christians before modern times – said it was wrong. What’s your stance? Divorce and remarriage? Jesus condemns it. And you? Celibacy? Jesus commends it (did you even know that?). How about you? Oh, and how about the real toughies for you: obedience to the Church. What’s the Bible say about that?

You are certifiable. I definitely don’t ever want to darken the doors of any Catholic church. False conclusions and opinions are what church doctrines are all about. Why minister to someone who’s already saved? Honey, the Catholic church is the last place I want to be, especially if you’re there. What’s that saying? They’re so holier-than-thou, they’re no earthly good.

You don’t like Bible believing Protestants? Do you have anything nice to say about any “bible believing” non- catholics?

A Jew will always be a Jew. No matter how you slice it. They are called Messianic (sp?) Jews, you know, christian Jews. I’ll tell you a little secret.....Jesus was a Jew.

Being that I got most of my church time in a conservative baptist church, yes I have read Colossians.

Christ founded the Catholic church for his, former Jewish, but now Catholic, disciples? You are now starting to scare me.

When the church knew someone was sexually indiscreet and moved him to another parish or church, they turned a blind eye to it. When they are in a position of leadership in the church they have an obligation to take care of their flock. Did they have any idea how much that grieved God?

What you must realize is WE are the church and yes, we do sin. Thank God that Christ’s blood washes away those sins.

The church I’m talking about is the organized religion, not Christ’s church. We are holy and blameless after our conversion. The organized church is accountable for the actions of their agents, that’s why the Bible is very specific as to the qualifications of elders, deacons,teachers and so on.

You did question my faith when you called me a lone ranger and told me I made up my christianity as I go. You don’t have to be a Priest to read the Bible anymore.....most of us are literate now.

The only thing I’ve said to Satan is you lose. Christ defeated him.

I still stand firm that baptism is symbolic, but whether I’ve been baptized or not will not prevent me from entering Heaven.

You brought into question my faith when you said “true believers are catholic”. And I do most certainly know I’m a sinner and Jesus is my Savior. “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”

Your tithing goes into the coffer and your money goes wherever it’s needed, i.e. lawsuits. Don’t kid yourself.

Do you know me? No. Then how can you say I only apply what’s comfortable for me? That’s rather presumptive of you, isn’t it?

I don’t practice birth control. I have been married for eighteen and a half years, and not all of it fun either. Not that it’s any of your business but I was a 31 yr old virgin when I met my husband. I didn’t have any problems waiting for the right person. Birth control or did you mean abortion? I’ve had two ectopic pregnancies and by medical terms I had what they called a therapeutic abortion (surgery). I was devastated both times because of my stance on abortion. God did bless me with a son in between these other times, so I feel richly blessed. He’s sixteen and a half years old and homeschooled, I had to save him from their brainwashing.

I am obedient to Christ’s Church. It’s not near as hard being obedient to God as it is being civil to you when you make those smarmy comments. Now I know, firsthand, why people critize the Catholics. Your religion ranks right up there with Mormonism.....pssst, that wasn’t a compliment. Anyway, take care and God bless.

You wrote:

“You are certifiable. I definitely don’t ever want to darken the doors of any Catholic church. False conclusions and opinions are what church doctrines are all about.”

No, they’re what Protestant doctrines are about. And rather than claim I am certifiable why don’t you try to deal with what I say. Besides, saying I am certifiable is a personal attack. If you were a Catholic, you would have your post deleted for that. Since you are saying it to a Catholic here at FR, most likely nothing at all will happen.

“Why minister to someone who’s already saved?”

I do not assume someone is saved because of his own opinion about his standing with God. Look at how many people assume they are saved based on solely their own opinion. That sort of idea started ONLY with the Protestant Revolution. It was not present in orthodox Christianity.

“Honey, the Catholic church is the last place I want to be, especially if you’re there.”

Isn’t that a purely emotional response? Again, I don’t care if you hate me, but why not at least have the grace to admit you demanded verses, got them, and have effectively no response?

“What’s that saying? They’re so holier-than-thou, they’re no earthly good.”

If you remember, I clearly said in my last post to you that I am a sinner. I cannot possibly be claiming to be holier-than-thou if I am so openly admitting that I am a sinner like everyone else. Where is your comment on that? No, instead you claim the opposite.

“You don’t like Bible believing Protestants?”

I never said anything like that nor do I believe it. I believe the Protestant Revolution was an attack by Satan upon the Church to split the faithful, deform the gospel, and lock millions of souls into a false presumptive belief in their salvation no matter what they did. And that’s exactly what has happened.

“Do you have anything nice to say about any “bible believing” non- catholics?”

Yes, but how is that material? Are these threads about being “nice”? And where are your nice comments about Catholics? No, instead you are throwing out rhetoric like: “You are certifiable. I definitely don’t ever want to darken the doors of any Catholic church. False conclusions and opinions are what church doctrines are all about.” So, you not only attack me, but the entire Church and really every Catholic. And now you want me to say “nice” things about Protestants. Where are your “nice” comments about Catholics? And in any case, I don’t mistake “nice” for “charity”. The two are not the same thing. Look at Christ and the early Christians. They were charitable. They were not always so “nice”.

“A Jew will always be a Jew. No matter how you slice it. They are called Messianic (sp?) Jews, you know, christian Jews. I’ll tell you a little secret.....Jesus was a Jew.”

Glad you figured it out. Again, I never denied that Jesus and His apostles were Jews. I also never denied that they were Catholics.

“Being that I got most of my church time in a conservative baptist church, yes I have read Colossians.”

So how did you not know that verse? And where is your response to it? Can you admit at least that you forgot about it? Anything?

“Christ founded the Catholic church for his, former Jewish, but now Catholic, disciples? You are now starting to scare me.”

Read Acts 11. There the followers of Christ are called Christians for the first time. They were still largely Jewish in origin. But as everywhere they were no longer Greek nor Jew, but Christian. Their ethnicity didn’t change, but their entire world view did. Christ founded the Church - that can not be denied - although there are Protestants who do so (incredibly). That Church which Christ founded was the Catholic Church.

“When the church knew someone was sexually indiscreet and moved him to another parish or church, they turned a blind eye to it.”

The Church never did that - not once. Bishops, individual bishops, did that against Church tradition.

“When they are in a position of leadership in the church they have an obligation to take care of their flock.”

Yes, they do, and many of them utterly failed to do their jobs. The Church did not fail. Some bishops, however, did.

“Did they have any idea how much that grieved God?”

Apparently not. Thankfully the Church did nothing wrong. Some Bishops did, however.

“What you must realize is WE are the church and yes, we do sin. Thank God that Christ’s blood washes away those sins.”

What you must realize is that WE here on earth are not the only ones in the Church, that she is from God and Holy no matter what sins her sinful members commit. She is so great in her teaching authority that even the angels learn from her about God. Did you know that? If you didn’t, then read Ephesians 3:10. And yes, Christ washes away our sins with His blood but we clearly do not wash in His blood literally. So how is it that His blood cleans us? His blood, spilled for us on Golgotha, cleans us through baptism and confession. That’s why baptism uses water. It symbolizes the blood of Christ. Did you know that? (And what is your response to the verses about baptism? No response at all apparently.) This is why Christians have always said that the empowerment for the Church came out of Christ’s side: blood and water.

“The church I’m talking about is the organized religion, not Christ’s church.”

The two are the same. Again, as I pointed out earlier in this thread: Christ picked and organized 12 Apostles, 70 Disciples, instructed them for three years, gave them the Holy Spirit, and commanded them to carry out His mission further onto the earth. That sounds like an organized Church. Over time any organization will become more organized, more clearly arranged. That in no way stops the Catholic Church from still being the Catholic Church - sent by Christ. And to this point - which I have made before in this thread - you apparently have no effective response.

“We are holy and blameless after our conversion.”

Blameless? Are you claiming to not be a sinner?

“The organized church is accountable for the actions of their agents, that’s why the Bible is very specific as to the qualifications of elders, deacons,teachers and so on.”

No, the qualifications were given so that good men would be picked at that time. It does not mean that the Church is stained by their faults - and all of them had faults. Nor does it mean that the Church itself is sullied by their sins. People alone are responsible for their own sins. No matter what sin some other person commits, it in no way stains my soul. The Church - according to scripture - is spotless and without wrinkle because she is the Bride of Christ. She also came from Christ. She can only be holy. Her members, however, still possess free will and a fallen nature like all men, and sadly, sin.

“You did question my faith when you called me a lone ranger and told me I made up my christianity as I go.”

No. Here you are confusing two types of faith: 1) A person’s trust in God for God’s grace and his salvation, and 2) the sum total of Christian belief, the Christian religion. I have no doubt, whatsoever, that you have a deep faith in God. I also have no doubt that you make up your Christian FAITH as you go along. I never questioned your personal faith in God, nor did I ever question your integrity. I asked you where I did those things and now we all know I never did them because you couldn’t present a single example of me doing it. Attack my words if you like, but at least attack what I actually say.

“You don’t have to be a Priest to read the Bible anymore.....most of us are literate now.”

1) It was never the case that only priests could read the Bible, although illiteracy was dramatically higher then than today.

2) Do not assume reading the Bible ALONE is the sum total of Christianity or faithful Christian practice. That is simply a Protestant idea and did not exist before the 16th century.

3) I know you can read the Bible, but as we have seen, there are verses you are apparently unfamiliar with. And, you cannot answer simple questions such as: Where in the Bible does it say Matthew wrote the gospel named after him? Your belief that Matthew wrote that gospel, and that it is inspired, is no where, AND I MEAN NO WHERE, in scripture. It is a Tradition. A Catholic tradition.

“The only thing I’ve said to Satan is you lose. Christ defeated him.”

Yes, Christ defeated him. And Christ so established the Church that Satan can’t defeat it either. Matthew 16:18.

“I still stand firm that baptism is symbolic, but whether I’ve been baptized or not will not prevent me from entering Heaven.”

You stand firm, but on what grounds? The Bible, THE BIBLE, says baptism washes away sins. That means it isn’t symbolic. And Christ, Who was not One to waste time, would never bother sending the Apostles out to baptize the world if it was only an empty symbol. Christ did not entrust His people with empty symbols. He entrusted His Church with power to pass on forgiveness of sins.

“You brought into question my faith when you said “true believers are catholic”.”

Again, as proven above, no. I NEVER, EVER questioned your faith. The FAITH is a different matter. A person cannot claim to have the fullness of the FAITH as it objectively stands while rejecting the Body of Christ. That is an impossibility.

“And I do most certainly know I’m a sinner and Jesus is my Savior. “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.””

And yet you accuse me of being holier-than-thou and now you admit we are all sinners which is exactly what I said.

“Your tithing goes into the coffer and your money goes wherever it’s needed, i.e. lawsuits. Don’t kid yourself.”

No. No money I have given to the Church has gone to pay off a single lawsuit. ZERO. I know how a diocese works and where the money goes. I also kno wmy diocese. I have no reason to believe you do. And exactly ZERO of my dollars have gone to pay off a single lawsuit. ZERO.

“Do you know me? No. Then how can you say I only apply what’s comfortable for me? That’s rather presumptive of you, isn’t it?”

No. As a Protestant, who believes in do-it-yourself-Christianity, that is the inevitable result. There is no presumption on my part, only a recognition of the obvious.

“I don’t practice birth control.”

I never asked if you did. I asked: “What’s your stance?” In other words, this is not just about whatever YOU do. This is about what is right for EVERYONE. Do you believe birth control to be immoral? Christians, including Protestants, all did believe it was immoral until the 1930s. Is it immoral or not? That’s the issue. If you’re confused about this issue, you might want to read the book by the Protestant writer Charles Provan called The Bible and Birth Control.

“I have been married for eighteen and a half years, and not all of it fun either. Not that it’s any of your business but I was a 31 yr old virgin when I met my husband. I didn’t have any problems waiting for the right person. Birth control or did you mean abortion? I’ve had two ectopic pregnancies and by medical terms I had what they called a therapeutic abortion (surgery). I was devastated both times because of my stance on abortion. God did bless me with a son in between these other times, so I feel richly blessed. He’s sixteen and a half years old and homeschooled, I had to save him from their brainwashing.”

But what about divorce and remarriage? Is it moral? Again, this isn’t about your personal life as a series of actions - good, bad, happy, sad, etc. I am very sorry that you suffered two ectopic pregnancies. But what I am asking is the moral question here. Even if, for instance, you have never been divorced and remarried, what is your moral, doctrinal stance on that issue?

“I am obedient to Christ’s Church. It’s not near as hard being obedient to God as it is being civil to you when you make those smarmy comments.”

And by your own standards you made none? Look at post #64 and ask yourself if you were truly trying to be helpful or if you were being smarmy as you put it. Remember, we were not even conversing, if I remember correctly, until you broke in with that post. So how is it that you are not smarmy when you say I am certifiable, but I am smarmy no matter what I say? I know there’s a splinter in my eye. Do you see yours?

“Now I know, firsthand, why people critize the Catholics. Your religion ranks right up there with Mormonism.....pssst, that wasn’t a compliment. Anyway, take care and God bless.”

Again, we see the hypocrisy. Just after you condemn me for smary comments you say that. You condemned me for questioning your faith - which I never did - and here you are comparing us with Mormons. Again, do you feel the splinter in your eye?

You completely avoided what I asked about divorce and remarriage and celibacy and obedience to the Church, etc. Yeah. That’s why.

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