Posted on 07/29/2008 4:39:52 PM PDT by annalex
Evangelicals have been going through a major change of heart in their view of Catholicism over the past 15 years or so. In the 80’s when I was in college I lived in the Biblebelt and had plenty of experience with Evangelicals–much of it bad experience. The 80’s was the height of the “Are you saved?” question. In Virginia, the question often popped up in the first 10 minutes of getting to know someone. As I look back, Isurmise that this was coached from the pulpit or Sunday school as it was so well coordinated and almost universally applied. It was a good tactic for putting Catholics on the defensive even before it was known that they were Catholic—”ummmm, uhhh, well no, I’m not sure, I’m Catholic.” Then a conversation about works righteousness or saint statues would ensue. Yeah, nice to meet you, too.
Thankfully, those days are pretty much over. We now have formerly rabid anti-Catholics apologizing and even praising the pope. Catholics and Evangelicals have both learned that we have much in common and need each other to face the secular culture with a solid front. But, where did this detente come from? I think there is a real history to be told here and a book should be written. Let me give my perceptions of 7 major developments since 1993, which I regard as the the watershed year for the renewal of the Catholic Church in the United States.
1. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1993. When this document came out, it was uncertain that even Catholics would read it. We should have known that something was up when the French version hit the top of the bestsellers charts in France and stayed there for months. The English version did the same in the US. Catholics were reading the Catechism, forming study groups and challenging errant professors in the classroom.
2. World Youth Day, Denver 1993. Catholic youth and youth ministers woke up. Suddenly, Catholic youth ministers realized that the youth loved the pope. And they loved him all the more because he did not talk down to them or water down the faith. He challenged them. Gone now were the pizza and a video parish youth nights. Furthermore, youth and young adults took up the challenge to evangelize. One of those youth heard the message and started a website, New Advent. Catholic youth were now becoming zealous for the Catholic faith in its fullness and were not going to be swayed by an awkward conversation that began with “Are you saved?”
3. Scott Hahn. While the Catechism is great for expounding the Catholic faith, it is not a work of apologetics itself. It is not written to expose the flaws of Evangelical theology. It is not written to defend the Church against the attacks of Evangelicals per se. It just would not let them get away with misrepresenting the Catholic faith. But Scott Hahn hit the scene at about the same time with Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism (Ignatius Press: San Francisco, 1993). I first heard his testimony on cassette tape in 1996. It blew my mind. Suddenly, Catholic apologetics, which is as old as the Catholic Church itself, got a leg up and there was an explosion of books, magazines and websites that effectively undercut the arguments of the 5 Solas. For the first time, there was a cadre of Catholics well enough informed to defend their faith.
4. The Internet. The Net started exploding from 1993 to 1996. I had my first account in ‘94. Compuserve was horribly basic, but by ‘96 I had AOL and the religion debates raged instantly. Catholics who had just been given the most powerful weapon in the arsenal in the war against misinterpretation of their teaching were learning to type on a forum while balancing their catechisms on their laps. Of course, online versions came out, as well. But, no Evangelical bent on getting Catholics out of the arms of the Whore of Babylon could expect to do so without himself have a copy of the Catechism, knowing it inside out and pouring over it for the errors and horrors he would surely find. Evangelical apologists were confronted with a coherent and beautiful presentation of the Catholic faith that they were ill equipped to argue against. They learned that Catholics, too, loved Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The Catechism had arrived providentially just before the internet and had turned the tables in just a few short years. With the apologetic movement hitting at the same time, Evangelicals were also confronted with Catholics who could argue from the Bible defending their faith and demonstrating the weaknesses of Evangelical interpretations of scripture.
5. Early Church Fathers. One fruit of the Apologetics movement has been a flowering anew of Catholic interest in Patristics. This is happening at every level from armchair apologists to doctoral studies. It is suddenly all about Patristics, whereas in the 70’s-90’s the academic focus had been on Karl Rahner and Liberation Theology.
6. Evangelical Third World Experience. Evangelicals have had a field day in Latin America among the poor who are not part of the internet conversation and are distant from the study of apologetics. But, Evangelicals have learned from their experiences abroad an essential aspect of the Gospel they were missing: the Works of Mercy. Once haughty with their criticism of “works righteousness,” they have learned one cannot attend to the spiritual needs of the poor without attending to their bodily needs. Catholic have always understood this. Now, the Evangelicals are coming around. I haven’t heard an Evangelical Televangelist speak on works righteousness in many years.
7. Secularism. With the collapse of the Mainline churches as the backbone of American religion over the past thirty years (since about 1975), Catholics and Evangelicals are the only ones left standing in this country to present the Gospel. Secularism is on the rise and is ruthless. Evangelicals are now learning that only Catholicism has the intellectual resources to combat the present secular age. And, with the pope, we have a pretty effective means for communicating the faith and representing it to the world. There is nothing an Evangelical can do that will match the power of one World Youth Day.
With such an array of Providential developments, Evangelicals as well as Catholics have come to appreciate the depth and the breadth of the Catholic faith. It is far more difficult for them to honestly dismiss Catholicism as the work of Satan as once they did without qualm. There have been apologies and there have been calls for a new partnership. Let us hope these developments will bring about a new moment of understanding for the Glory of the Lord.
I used to be REALLY good at reading minds—ask my children—but I admit now that I’m sliding towards 70 that my ability has changed somewhat. Of course, some minds aren’t worth the effort.
That’s right. It’s the WORD that has the power to convict and to lead the person in the direction we want to see them go, to Christ and Christ alone.
You were saying that their lives can reflect goodness and faith (or words to that effect). Sometimes it just isn’t enough because others don’t always recognize that you are anything but a good person. Sharing Christ verbally with someone at least gives them a clue (LOL). Is that so bad?
Such is your claim.
-—ask my children...
Uh, no.
...some minds aren’t worth the effort.
Yeah, since you said that only because you think I was rude...right.
Yawn!!!!
Looking at your premise, the Roman Catholic church sure isn't very good at following what its "product" says. Their "product" says one thing in plain language, yet they make that language say another thing. It is no wonder that so many have left the RCC when they were told by it to read - the Scriptures - their "product". There is a world of difference between the RCC and what they make bold claims to be "their product."
My conclusion is that if anyone wants to put an end to a discussion, simply post a thesis that is irrefutable to the ones disagreeing with you.
Any comments? I thought not :-)
My conclusion is that you haven't been around here long enough to realize that these threads generally die out between 500 and 1000 posts. That is what is happening here.
Don't worry, someone else will post another thread and you can make the same arguments; that is the beauty of anti-Catholicism, the topic of the thread isn't even important.
For what it's worth, I find it quite revealing how on a thread entitled "Evangelicals: Change of Heart toward Catholics" so many Evangelicals have proven that anti-Catholic bigotry is alive and well.
If the thread had been tagged “ecumenical” the discussion would have been non-antagonistic.
I agree and it probably should have been. Nevertheless, I find it quite ironic that a thread that specifically addressed ecumenism became antagonistic.
LOL! Sometimes maybe. But I've noticed that any time [yes, it's two words] a stupendously idiotic, ignorant, uninformed, subrational post is posted, it quickly gathers dust and is ignored by those who conclude that the poster is hopeless -- especially to the ones it is addressed to!
It was annalex’ choice to open the floor to “anti” posters.
You wrote:
“Any comments? I thought not :-)”
Well, here are my comments:
1) Don’t post theses. Post comments. Make a point - certainly - but your post seemed needlessly long and vague so I ignored it.
2) It was addressed to a large crowd. That often cries out “Pay attention to me! It’s all about me”. I tend to ignore those posts.
3) It was addressed to a large crowd. I just assume let someone else respond or not respond then. I tend to respond more to those things addressed to me.
4) I did read over the post quickly and it seemed rather specious, the usual tripe that’s posted here that accomplishes little and solves nothing because it is what it is.
I’m aware of that, I just think it’s ironic.
LOL!
I chose the open format deliberately. I agree with the sentiment expressed by some Protestants that the ecumenical format is unfair to them because much of Protestantism is about its opposition to the Catholic Church. I appreciate the robust debate that ensued on this thread. It is a good thing all around.
I will respond to all serious posts addressed to me sooner or later, but my time today is very limited.
The Church does not teach that most of the OT is allegory.
I understand that you disagree with some of the correctives to the secularization that the Catholic Church offers, and I also understand that other that Catholic viewpoints exist; it does not follow that the list I offered is not unique, as I am unaware of any other body characterized by all of them.
Some wars against heretics were, of course, not about the Holy Land at all, and some, especially against the Orthodox, were a mistake to wage. However, the Cathars, for example, were a horrendous heresy that deserved to be put down.
I also don’t think that the brutality of war really subsided in modernity, rather the opposite. In terms of jurisprudence, there has been some progress and the Holy Inquisition played a positive role in giving the accused rights and insisting on due process. As a Catholic I would welcome a robust Papal Inquisiton into the affairs of the Catholic Education, which continues to be a scandal even after the sex abuse scandal blew over.
Thank you for your testimony.
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