Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
Hopefully the fight is of the same order Saint Paul was referring to when he said : "I have fought the good fight. I have finished the course. I have kept the faith."
So was Paul's fight already lost, or was it without purpose, since it was won without his effort?
Adults have free will to choose good or evil. Saving faith is shunning evils because they are of the devil and performing goods because they are of God and from God.
Maybe her works were that she walked up to Him and touched His cloak. Maybe her works were that she withdrew from Him trying to go unnoticed. Maybe her works were that she came back tembling and fell at his feet. All He said was, 'Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace.'
Yes, it's indeed a lamentable pity that the sprawlingly vast majority of Christianity across 2000 years and five continents got it so completely wrong, and that one dogged group of old-school Presbyterians should nail it right on the head! Fie on the so-called children of the Reformation, who would subscribe to a doctrine so pernicious as that of free will! ;)
Not Catholic. The formula is "faith-plus-works."
I have certainly heard that many times before and accept it as a standard answer. For those who have used the term "works-based salvation" with me, I have understood them to refer to "that which seals the deal". I accept that Catholics believe that faith is a part of salvation. The problem that I and like-mindeds have is the idea that salvation is DEPENDENT on our own works. Lots of people back in the day thought the same thing, and Paul ripped them to shreds. :)
Well, well...that all ya got?
I'm peeling off my raincoat and rubber boots. :-)
Does depemdence on the Righteousness of Christ for the remission of sins (Romans 3:24-26) produce a greater confidence in presenting Christ to others?
well, Jehovah’s Witnesses are in a way heirs to a certain sect called Arians, who were anti-Trinitarian theologically.
Some of the other JW beliefs don’t really fit any group.
I find that to be an excellent article, especially point #3.
You sure are right about them having beliefs, that few other religions, seem to share....like their stand on no blood transfusions...they do get regular modern medical care, but will refuse the blood transfusions...and I think that they also will not eat rare meat, with the warm blood flowing, as often happens in steaks, cooked rare..
And they also have distinct belief about communion...from what my acquaintances have told me, only 144,000 people ever make it to Heaven...that is because they are the ones who will form a sort of Heavenly government....the rest will either be destroyed completely, or be brought back to life on the earth...the only ones they allow that should take communion, as those who have come to the realization, that they are one of those chosen to be numbered among the 144,000...and this communion takes place only once a year, just before Easter..when I asked how one knows that they are among the 144,000, they say, they ‘just know’....
And of course, they dont celebrate Christmas as we know it, nor do they really celebrate birthdays, or wedding anniversaries...and in school, their children are exempt from saying the pledge to the flag each day, based on their religious beliefs...and I also believe that they will refuse to go into the military....
Sure, if you can love the Lord with all your heart, soul and mind as well as your neighbor (meaning everyone); you will inherit eternal life. However, most of us find that to be a bit of a challenge. I'm sure the lawyer who stood up to test our Lord found it to be equally as difficult.
I would argue most did not get it wrong until within the last 500-600 years. Please remember the Jews did exactly the same thing in corrupting their religion; so are we any different? By the time Jeremiah came on the scene Judaism had evolved to a point where the Jews were setting up idols in the temple and worshiping other things all the while believing God was looking favorably on them.
People today no longer care about correct theology. They simply want to fashion God into however they perceive Him to be. The scriptures are very clear on the correct way of worshiping God. People simply choose to ignore it.
Cauvin was a coward.
Personal interpretation of Scripture is the essence of protestantism. The Bible warns of itching ears, but some ignore the warning.
You don’t have to have “personal” interpretation. Frankly, apart from some minor doctrine, most of my interpretation is based upon the writings of the early church fathers. I doubt if you’ll find much written about Mary in those writings.
Good. Maybe I’ll post it as it’s own thread.
Ought we not then to be silent about free-will, and good intentions, and fancied preparations, and merits, and satisfactions? There is none of these which does not claim a share of praise in the salvation of men; so that the praise of grace would not, as Paul shews, remain undiminished. When, on the part of man, the act of receiving salvation is made to consist in faith alone, all other means, on which men are accustomed to rely, are discarded. Faith, then, brings a man empty to God, that he may be filled with the blessings of Christ. And so he adds, not of yourselves; that claiming nothing for themselves, they may acknowledge God alone as the author of their salvation.
In reality some have faith and some don't. Those who have faith were given that faith by God. Those who do not have faith were not given it by God. Would you disagree?
It isn't that man doesn't have free will. He just cannot exercise it. As far as Calvin being a coward that I don't know. But he certainly wasn't as bad as some of the Popes who ran out of the Vatican when people were storming the gates. So much for the chair of St. Peter.
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