I think the mother ship is coming.
Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
Oh, it sounded for a moment like you might be leaving the RC edifice so full of such heresies and double standards.
Premature rejoicing, obviously.
I rejoice in The Lord quite routinely.
I think the mother ship is coming.
Cute graphic!
It isn’t the thing that is evil it is the intent to use a thing for evil or to give it some power that belongs only to God.
So God creates men knowing from before they are born that they will burn in hell?
And yet He creates them anyway. Why?
Does God really not want these people to burn in hell, but in spite of His own desires, He creates them anyway knowing they will burn in hell?
And does God thwart His own desires even to the point of letting these people choose the wrong path, even though at any time He could intervene in their lives and guide them toward the right path?
God intervened in my life and guided me to the right path. Why didn't He do that for everyone?
The answer is 1 Corinthians 4:7.
That...
is very...
true ABOUT music
.
Most people really... don’t pay... attention...
Until
it
is 2
LaTe
I’m sure big ol’freeper will assure you he has never been associated with any “RC edifice,” whatever the hell that is.
BOF, are you a cradle Catholic?
I'd add for the benefit of our Baptist brethren that a Reformed versus Dispensationalist view of scripture also comes into play when looking at the sacraments (or to Baptists, ordinances). While a Baptist, for example, would think first of the Baptism of John when they think of the practice, the Reformed would see it as the post-advent equivalent of circumcision; and the Lord's Supper as the post-advent equivalent of Passover.
"Where in Scripture does God tell us to make ourselves slaves to sola scriptura? "
In the beginning was the Word........John 1:1
I see problems with the Logos, as understood by defenders (apologists) of Rome, and by mainstream Protestant organizations who continue to hold Trinitarian notions that are certainly not supported by the Word..
In Scripture, clues and rules abound, but rudiments of the world, traditions of men, are what seem to be more prevalent, and defended out here in these threads maintained by the vacuous intent on defending matters passed down through channels dedicated to the propagation and continuation of archaic denominations that are rooted in paganism.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ..... Collosians 2:8
The Contrarians to "sola scriptura" are in the ridiculous position of having to contend with their own "alleged'' Fathers who deemed the New Testament as inspired . That is to say, the modern Catholic Church supposedly are the heirs of the Apostles, yet they are not in accord with the actual teachings of the Apostles as recorded in their sanctioned Book of the Acts of the Apostles.
Read ACTS Chapter 2 verse 38 and before, for more clues.
Free will.
God wants us to choose Him. Each and every one of us can do so.
Foreknowledge is not fore-ordination.
Soooooooooooooooo cute
and
sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sweet, Dearums.
I didn’t know you cared sooooooooooooooooooooooo much!
(Blush).
I have to agree. I really don’t know if he understands how obnoxious and juvenile he sounds.
OH, I am sure there are many books on the subject, as there are on any subject, and I really dont feel the need to get into any of them whatsoever...after all, it is just someone elses opinion....
I didn’t realize there’s a new dogma out about how to go about
misconstruing Quix’s posts! LOL.
Or is it genetic, by now?
Oh, that’s right . . .
1600 years of institutional practice.
Christ's blood washes us clean.
The RCC has taken the blood of Christ and encased it in a box. Likewise, it has taken baptism and wrapped it up in ribbons and bows.
The RCC then tells the world that it alone can distribute these earthly presents to the world.
And that is a lie.
Baptism and the Lord's Supper are spiritual gifts from God to His children. Both are signs and seals of the promise God made to His family, named before the foundation of the world, that He will love them, guide them, and redeem them for everlasting.
[BOF, are you a cradle Catholic?]
Indeed I am. And along the way am a Knight of the Altar (former altar boy), and a Knight of the Immaculata also.
As I said before, I have no idea what a “RC edifice” is. What I do know, without a doubt, is that the Catholic Church is the only church where the fullness of faith can be found because Jesus tells me so. Anybody practicing a faith outside of that is lacking in Truth...perilously so. And if one mocks the Catholic Church they are mocking Jesus Christ himself.
Welllllllllllllll
You know
And we know
And God knows
and most sane folks on this forum know
What the RC edifice refers to.
However, if institutionalized pretense and fantasies still help one sleep at night . . . who am I to raise toooooo big a fuss.
Indeed, I agree with your completely, 100 percent...
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