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Catholics & Salvation; And the answer is: Maybe.
Stand To Reason ^ | Gregory Koukl

Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock

A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.

My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?

I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)

Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.

But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.

What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.

I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."

And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: salvation
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To: andysandmikesmom; Marysecretary

What Mary is stating is a belief in the Iconoclast heresy that began in Islam:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07620a.htm

It is an insidious heresy that many protestants espouse.


1,921 posted on 07/21/2008 3:54:41 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words". ~ St. Francis of Assisi)
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To: big'ol_freeper

Of course not, LOL.


1,922 posted on 07/21/2008 3:57:22 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: big'ol_freeper

I’m just saying be very careful what you bring into your home. Pray over them. Be discerning. Most are ignorant about such things. That’s the real danger. It’s not that satan has more power, it’s that folks don’t realize the danger and do nothing about it.


1,923 posted on 07/21/2008 3:59:23 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Marysecretary

Do you believe that things brought into your house can also be blessed and therefore be a source of Grace?


1,924 posted on 07/21/2008 4:01:29 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words". ~ St. Francis of Assisi)
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To: andysandmikesmom

We live alongside the supernatural. It’s always with us, in a parallel universe of sorts. Not everything we see or everyone we know has a demon or evil spirit. We should always pray to be filled with the HOLY Spirit. You can learn about certain objects that are used by unholy people, or New Agers. Never buy them. We need to educate ourselves about such items. There are crystals, the ‘devil’s horn’ jewelry, unicorns, etc. that are used by the New Agers.


1,925 posted on 07/21/2008 4:03:18 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: big'ol_freeper

Everything written was pretty clear. We don’t need to spin it.


1,926 posted on 07/21/2008 4:05:13 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Petronski
The choices (misuses) of free will facilitate this damnation.

Why do some men "misuse" free will and others don't?

God wants us to choose Him.

And yet some men don't "choose Him."

Putting aside the Scriptural truth that God loves us before we love Him, does what you wrote mean God doesn't get what He wants? Isn't God capable of bringing all men to faith in Christ if that's what He really "wants?"

1,927 posted on 07/21/2008 4:07:49 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Petronski

Repeated paraphrasing of other people’s posts does not equal a sound argument.


1,928 posted on 07/21/2008 4:09:43 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: andysandmikesmom

Demons do exist everywhere. They are always on the prowl to injure us and our children. That’s why it’s called spiritual warfare. You need to be close to Christ and call on His name to dispel them. You don’t need to fear them but you do need to be aware that they exist. That’s why you pray blessings over your children, to protect them from the temptations of this world, which are demonic.

There are those who believe that demons follow our families through the generations. Many diseases pass through from generation to generation, addictions, anger, bitterness, resentments can travel from generation to generation. But they can be stopped by a Christian parent through prayer and sometimes deliverance. Cancer has devastated my family. I pray against it all the time. Alcohol the same. I pray against those things in the Name of Jesus.

There are books on the subject that explain it much more succinctly than I can.


1,929 posted on 07/21/2008 4:11:38 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Petronski

Where in Scripture does God tell us to pray to anyone other than the Triune God?


1,930 posted on 07/21/2008 4:11:42 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: big'ol_freeper

UNMITIGATED BALDERDASH.

Certainly Paul’s prayer cloths had effect.

Going sky west and crooked with the idea is still well beyond unwise into nonsense and even hazard.


1,931 posted on 07/21/2008 4:12:23 PM PDT by Quix (WE HAVE THE OIL NOW http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)
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To: OLD REGGIE

I would think that because this church is the “birthplace” of the Reformation.

The “95 Theses” were posted there. The flowers are on Martin Luther’s tomb and Philip Melanchthon’s tomb is also near the altar.


1,932 posted on 07/21/2008 4:12:31 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Why do some men "misuse" free will and others don't?

Because it is "free" will. It is a condition of the fall.

1,933 posted on 07/21/2008 4:12:31 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: big'ol_freeper

I don’t believe all statuary, etc. are evil. But there are items that are used by false religions, new agers, etc. that are. You need to be discerning.


1,934 posted on 07/21/2008 4:13:17 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: big'ol_freeper

Yes.


1,935 posted on 07/21/2008 4:13:45 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Where in Scripture does God tell us to pray to anyone other than the Triune God?

Where in Scripture does God tell us to make ourselves slaves to sola scriptura?

1,936 posted on 07/21/2008 4:14:16 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: andysandmikesmom

C.S. Lewis

wisely observed that there was great hazard

in paying satan too much interest and credit

and

too little.


1,937 posted on 07/21/2008 4:14:32 PM PDT by Quix (WE HAVE THE OIL NOW http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Repeated paraphrasing of other people’s posts does not equal a sound argument.

I know.

That is why I do not do that.

1,938 posted on 07/21/2008 4:15:06 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: andysandmikesmom

Looking under every bed and teacup every other hour for demons

is a problem in and of itself.


1,939 posted on 07/21/2008 4:15:06 PM PDT by Quix (WE HAVE THE OIL NOW http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)
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To: Marysecretary
Well your answer, frankly, assigns greater power to Satan than to God. Sorry, but them is the facts Mary.

Not to say you got it all wrong (proddies usually have it partially right) because one should be cautious and pray over everything that effects one's self and family...and bless them. This is VERY Catholic. I think you are being called home!! Praise Jesus!

Catholics pray over and bless just about everything (cars, pets, homes, anything new...). Here is just one page out of the index of the Catholic Book of Blessings:


1,940 posted on 07/21/2008 4:15:19 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words". ~ St. Francis of Assisi)
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