I wonder why I ever expected you to read what the fathers said. After all
are blind.
Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
I do hope you are including some Catholic FReepers in your sick and hateful hearts category. Unfortunately, they aren’t hard to spot.
Will you let us know what they are when the book is finished?
are blind.
OK, I saw it. But I’m sure I’ll forget it, so please remind us all again when it’s out. Blessings.
Thank you for your kind thoughts...my one consolation, in this life, is that I know for sure, I will be with my son again....
His concern was only for his family, after he died....he worried that we would spend our lives grieving for him, and that was something he did not want....he told us, when he died, he would be safe in the Lord’s good and kind care, of that he had no doubt...and that we should take our comfort from that knowledge, and that soon enough, we would be together again...
Sometimes these very ill and dying children have the greatest sense of peace and comfort, and it is they, who support their families, not us that support them....if you ask any mother or father, who has watched their child struggle and die from a horrid disease, and they will tell you the same thing...the child becomes the example, we should follow...
Again, thanks...
Thank you. I copied them into my computer. Mxxx
From what I can tell by their posts, Catholics on these threads believe what the Church professes, and therefore are not practicing heresy the way those outside the Church are, so my comments could not include them.
Again, personal attacks just demonstrate that you have nothing to offer of substance. Move along.
It really matters what you bring into your house. There can be demons and curses put on them. That includes statues, paintings, icons, figurines, jewelry, etc.
But there can be evil spirits behind those statues. That’s the real danger. Bringing them into one’s home can put curses on the people there without their knowing it.
[It really matters what you bring into your house. There can be demons and curses put on them. That includes statues, paintings, icons, figurines, jewelry, etc.]
Interesting that you believe objects can be cursed and do harm but, if you concur with most protestants, objects can not be blessed and provide blessings (eg. holy water, scapulars, statues).
This is part of the old Iconoclast heresy. That would indicate a belief that Satan has greater power than God.
YOU are beloved by many of us, DEAR Alamo-Girl.
I am very curious about this notion....
I once heard Benny Hinn say that when he was on a plane ride back from some overseas trip, that everyone on board that plane aside from himself, and his crew, was actually a demon inhabiting a human body....I found that kind of charge incredible, but he insisted upon this....if, and that is one great big if, his assertion was true, then demons are all around us at all times....I mean one could then assert, that every single thing that they brought into their house, regardless of what it might be, may be ‘cursed’, and that every single person they met, might be a ‘demon’....
You agree with the Catholic Church.
They do not hear our prayers.
False.
"Beloved, flee from idolatry."
Done and done. Did you mean to falsely insinuate I was engaging in idolatry?
Right.
However, in this time/space dimension . . . Their bodies are counting the spots on the ceilings of their caskets . . . .
century after century.
As that post indicated, I have already done so.
That would explain why you didn't have the energy to refute what they said.
Interesting to hear you say the WCF indictment of the Pope as the antichrist is snide, and worth but two cents.
You're really coming around.
Thanks for your explanation, Dr. E.
No. The choices (misuses) of free will facilitate this damnation.
God wants us to choose Him.
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