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Turin Shroud to go on public display [Open]
Telegraph ^ | May 30, 2008 | Malcolm Moore

Posted on 05/31/2008 5:45:58 AM PDT by NYer

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1 posted on 05/31/2008 5:45:58 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
However, the success of the exhibition of Padre Pio’s remains in Puglia has convinced the Vatican to bring forward the next public showing of the shroud from 2025 to the year after next.

Gotta thank The Telegraph for giving us advance notice :-)

2 posted on 05/31/2008 5:47:48 AM PDT by NYer (John 6:51-58)
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To: NYer

What does the (open) mean? I have seen it on many posts and have yet to figure it out.


3 posted on 05/31/2008 5:54:45 AM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: NYer

There’s a blatant fraud to the shroud. It can never be proved to be Jesus’.


4 posted on 05/31/2008 6:05:36 AM PDT by Sacajaweau ("The Cracker" will be renamed "The Crapper")
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To: NYer

look at how closely the image on the shroud lines up with this ancient icon of Jesus

http://www.shroudofturin4journalists.com/pantocrator.htm


5 posted on 05/31/2008 6:12:01 AM PDT by ChurtleDawg (voting only encourages them)
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To: NYer; P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; jude24
The exhibition will coincide with a new set of scientific tests on the Shroud in order to verify its age. Professor Christopher Ramsey, the head of Oxford University’s Radiocarbon Accelerator unit, first dated the Shroud to between 1260 and 1390 in tests conducted 20 years ago. However, he has agreed to refresh his analysis after academics suggested that the presence of carbon monoxide in the material could have given a misleading result.

The latest scientific evidence, according to the above, says that this is not the shroud of Jesus. There is a disclaimer after that testing by some who claim that the testing was not done in a controlled way.

However, they're asking the same guy to do the testing????

The bottom line is that skeptics are supported in their skepticism and proponents have a fallback argument due to the questioned methodology.

6 posted on 05/31/2008 6:41:05 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: ChurtleDawg

I couldn’t possibly be less impressed by a web site. Yes, certain features line up... as they do with ALL human beings.

For instance: Sure, the icon also has a long nose; most icons have long noses; many Jews have long noses. But the icons nose is much narrower, and lacks the bump in the middle, which is very characteristic of shroud. S o what do the two noses have in common? O my! They’re both in the middle of the face!


7 posted on 05/31/2008 6:42:16 AM PDT by dangus
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To: xzins

>> However, they’re asking the same guy to do the testing???? <<

Yes. If they asked someone different, people would suggest they simply found someone inclined to give a positive result. By having the same researcher conduct the experiment again, they ensure a well-respected outcome.


8 posted on 05/31/2008 6:45:55 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

I suppose. However, I imagine there are many respected scientific labs out there.


9 posted on 05/31/2008 7:22:37 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: xzins
The latest scientific evidence,

obtained by Ramsey in 1988 is suspect. That admission comes from Ramsey himself and many others have disputed his testing and results.

10 posted on 05/31/2008 7:36:46 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: xzins

Or maybe two or more that could carry out blind analysis with after the fact comparison for similarities?


11 posted on 05/31/2008 7:37:20 AM PDT by Delta 21 ( MKC USCG - ret)
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To: shroudie

Ping


12 posted on 05/31/2008 7:38:23 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Sacajaweau

Point it out to us.


13 posted on 05/31/2008 7:40:31 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: xzins
I don't believe that the shroud is a fraud.
Were was most of the carbon dating ( carbon dating is still not a perfect 100 % accuracy proof ) done on the cloth ?
I heard on Coast to Coast AM a few weeks ago that most of the testing was done on the edges were the burns were ( that would explain the later date that they came up with.).
I still believe that the cloth is authentic, unless Alien U.F.O.s came here and gave those people the technical know how to make a fraud cloth, were in the world did they get the science to pull it off ?
14 posted on 05/31/2008 8:35:12 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

If he ( Ramsey ) even questions his own results, then all of his testing is in doubt.


15 posted on 05/31/2008 8:38:13 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
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To: Sacajaweau; Mr. Lucky
There’s a blatant fraud to the shroud. It can never be proved to be Jesus’.
Point it out to us.

Read "Turin Shroud" by Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince (1994) isbn 0-06-017224-X. They make the claim that the Shroud is actually the world's first photograph, possibly done by daVinci, the only one smart enough to figure out a way of creating it. I read the book because, while not a Believer, I thought the claim preposterous.

However, they bring out the fact that capturing an image on skin or cloth was well known as far back as Roman times, but that the image could never be fixed - it faded after a while. daVinci came up with a method (think of writing in lemon juice and then heating it to reveal the writing - same "scorching" effect).

They also brought out points I missed or were unaware of: If it was a burial shroud, why didn't the top of the head leave an impression? Instead the front and back are hinged. In the chapter "Getting the Measure of Shroudman" they claim that the head is a seperate image (a solid line of demarcation between it and the body that can't be explained by the cloth being folded under the chin) and is much brighter than the body, indicating a seperate application. The head is too small proportionally - the usual ratio of head to height ranging from 1.75 to 1.85 but the Shroud's proportion is 1.87 on the front and 1.92 on the back. Also, the front image measures 203cm (6'8") and the back 208cm (6'10"). A miracle indeed.

They were able to replicate the way the image was created by capturing an image on cloth treated with egg white and chemicals of the daVinci period, then "fixing" it by exposing it to heat.

I ended up thinking it made more sense than anything else I had read (a lot) about the subject. They also gave interesting insights on how the "Shroudies" (believers) sidetrack info that doesn't agree with their theories. Nothing new there, but it does cast suspicion on the "open-mindedness" of some who say the Shroud is real. Right now, I'm thinking it's a fantastic artifact - the world's first photograph, about 400 years before Daguerre.

At the end, the authors ask any college photographic department to try their method and see if their results can be replicated. Sounds like something neat students specializing in photography could do.

16 posted on 05/31/2008 8:51:22 AM PDT by Oatka (A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." –Bertrand de Jouvenel)
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To: Delta 21

That’s a very good idea, D2.


17 posted on 05/31/2008 9:05:55 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: Prophet in the wilderness; Delta 21

I am no expert on the shroud. I do think that the evidence at this point appears to be at a standoff based on the test mentioned in the article.

Since another test is to be carried out, I suppose that we’ll eventually get more data.

I like Delta 21’s suggestion of having 2 independent labs conduct separate tests and then comparing results. That seems pretty fair.

I don’t suppose anyone’s faith is based on the authenticity or lack of authenticity of a cloth locked up in someone’s vault someplace.


18 posted on 05/31/2008 9:09:15 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: Oatka
It sounds like something you haven't read but should is Freeper Shroudie's open letter to John Dominic Crossan.
19 posted on 05/31/2008 9:22:28 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: NYer

How did it last from A.D. 33 to the Middle Ages?


20 posted on 05/31/2008 10:06:30 AM PDT by scrabblehack
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