Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Yes, the universal catholic church, made up of those who believe in Him. It’s not a denomination called the Catholic church. It’s all of us who believe. The Catholic church is only one part of it.
Boy, the stuff you learn here, LOL.
One glance at the thousands of pleas to Mary for salvation is all it takes to realize Rome often teaches one thing and practices another.
And when He Who sent Jesus teaches us more of His doctrine, through the Holy Spirit, the source is the same.
Salvation through Christ.
The Catholic Church is not a denomination. It is the Church founded by Christ.
LOLOL. Where do you get this stuff?
If you're hoping to stir up the pot between Calvinists and non-Calvinists, you'll have to do better than that.
Thankfully, threads like this show the overwhelming agreement most Protestants (Calvinists included) have concerning God and men's salvation...
"Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36
That the RCC is compelled to embroider God's grace with the filthy rags of men's good works simply displays Rome's myopia.
Pray for eyes to see.
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." -- John 1:14
AMEN, dungeonmaster. Good point.
Yep. Again, Rome says one thing and does quite another.
There are none so blind who will not, WILLS NOT, (to) see.
Hah. IT IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
"But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." -- John 10:26
And usually wrong...
Not to beat a dead horse here but Jesus is actually using a pun here at Peter's expense. He is saying “you (Peter) are a stone, a movable, rolling stone (petros) and upon this huge immovable rock (petra)(either the confession or Jesus Himself)I am in the process of building my called out assembly.” He had already begun the assembly with John's disciples and it was now growing and ebbing as more disciples came and left with His message.
The assembly was not institutionalized, but came together loosely as the Holy Spirit moved.
Truly, the words of God are spirit and they are life.
To God be the glory!
Keep believing that Petronski. To your detriment.
Well, let’s see if my answer is satisfactory...
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