Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
WHERE in the name of heaven do you get the idea that we are unable to take responsibility for our actions? Of course we take responsibility. Do you think the Holy Spirit lets those of us who are committed to the Lord Jesus Christ get away with our sinful acts? NO, HE DOES NOT! This is a false precept from our Catholic friends. We can’t get away with it any more than you folks can. Cheez.
When it comes to "getting away with it," some on Team Geneva try harder.
Try harder to what?
Statues or STATUTES?
Misrepresenting the beliefs of the other side.
Some of your protestant brethren persist in the foulest lies about Catholicism no matter how many times they are corrected. Others persist in open mockery. What ever happened to the ability of men and women of good will to simply agree to disagree?
With the pagan and muslim barbarians at the gate, some of your friends can find no greater enemy than Catholicism.
Statutes. Corrected downthread.
Mary has replaced Israel as the people of God? Good grief. Another heresy from the RC’s.
What a crock.
We will pray the same for you, stfassissi. Talk about spiritual blindness......
There is sooo much deception where Mary is concerned. They cannot conceive of the truth that Mary wasn’t sinless all her life or that she actually (gasp) had sex with Joseph and that ended up with children. Sad.
The same goes for our RC friends here, stfassissi. They are just as adamant in their beliefs and just as stubborn as any one of the prottys on these threads. And sometimes even unloving. Road goes both ways. Oh, by the way, speaking the truth of the gospel isn’t Catholic bashing or hatred.
FOREST KEEPER: I think the Catholics would say that all the rituals they perform to gain their salvations (for themselves or others) are done with love for God, but this is a new requirement, to love someone ELSE in the supernatural realm (e.g. satan, demons, angels, or departed saints) who is NOT God. (???)
Yes, it seems the RCC adds to the Gospel regularly which is really subtracting from the Gospel since receiving God's grace through faith in the Gospel of Christ is the only thing required for our salvation. To add to this singular requirement detracts from the glory of God's plan of salvation by mercy and not debt.
No Protestant whom I know "loves Mary" in the way Catholics "love Mary." Are we really in danger of "losing our salvation" because of this distinction, stfassisi?
perhaps it hasnt been articulated clearly or in a manner they understand
Great.
Thanks thanks.
You’re right. I believe that’s why God is raising up so many non-denominational-type churches who are preaching His Word. ANY church can get into error. We aren’t perfect and our understanding isn’t even going to be perfect, but there are churches coming up that really try to understand and preach the Word and rightly dividing it.
I’m talking about behavior that has persisted for years. It shows every indication of being willful.
Reminds me of angels and pin heads. LOL.
Or does’t.
To conclude she is dead is to reject eternal life.
BTW, what happened to the Angels God always used before? Did they get fired? :-)
The Mary caricature* was seen in so many places so often, rumor has it a good many took early retirement.
Some applied for the White Hanky Brigade but there was a contortionist screening test that many couldn’t pass.
*(or ET managed hoaxed substitutes)
/s
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