The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

[Ultra Sonic 007]

Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.

There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.

Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).

Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.

Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.

I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.

But do I WORSHIP them?

No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.

I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.

There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?

I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.

Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.

In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.

At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.

[Petronski]

A book I highly recommend. Very scholarly and eye opening.

I'll put it on my reading list, right behind Hislop and Foxe.

[Petronski]

Koine Greek was the "lingua franca" of the Roman Empire.

You continue to provide me with the deepest, most intense laughter therapy I've ever imagined.

[Mad Dawg]

That was proof? Fr. Feeney? the guy who was excommunicated and then restored? Is that who we're talking about?

The contention is " I have never heard a Catholic priest slander other religions or groups of people."

The contention was NOT, "No Catholic priest blah blah blah."

Yes, that was the suggested inference. But it seems to me at any rate that rigor and kindness would have been clear in the appropriate response which is indeed, "You may never have heard it, but let me tell you, some made a living at it."

And I think that my suggestion that maybe the guys you mention are notorious because they are rare MIGHT be valid. The "might" accounts for my use of "maybe".

IN any event, on this thread there have been two instances when non-Catholics called into question the veracity of reports by Catholics, and one veiled suggestion like the one which closed another thread.

I'm feeling the love here. Not.

[Uri’el-2012]

see 778 above

[Petronski]

You describe the method one might chose to select a pedigreed brood mare.

[OLD REGGIE]

I didn't think it was only Catholics who posted prayer request threads -- or posted on them that they certainly would pray as requested. I was sure I've seen screen names of Protestants . .

That wasn't the question. The question concerned the intercession of Mary.

Do you believe Jesus wouldn't hear a prayer without the intercession of Mary?

[Petronski]

It may make you feel better but in the end it is only by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in Christ Alone that we are saved.

Sola fide is Biblical heresy.

[Mad Dawg]

Thank you. It’s my Biblio-centrism, heh heh. I don’t think about, say Spain or Morocco enough. Thanks again. That really sounds right.

[netmilsmom]

>>Do you believe Jesus wouldn’t hear a prayer without the intercession of Mary? <<

No one does.

[Mad Dawg]

May God support him and comfort him in all this.

[Petronski]

Thus many Catholics don't read the Bible because they prefer to read the catechism and what the magisterium tells them the Bible says which is what you just high-fived.

Prove it.

[netmilsmom]

>>see 778 above<<

Which has no link to proves it to be fact....

[Petronski]

Mary would be ashamed of what has been taught in her name.

Speaking of eerie and creepy, thank you for sharing your own personal interpretation of Scripture.

[Joya]

Dear 1000 silverlings,

Quix appreciates your supportive words, they deeply touched him.

He hadn’t realized he’d put Jim ahead of his own dad in prayer priority, but he really had. Quix loves Jim Robinson and he loves Free Republic.

Quix did faithfully help care for his mother in her final years till she graduated from this earthly life three years ago.

He is grateful to be able to live next door to his step dad and enjoys spending time with him. His step dad is also in his 80s and thankfully is doing quite well.

He is sorely missed here on Free Republic by many.

Thanks again for your kind words.

Joya

[Uri’el-2012]

You describe the method one might chose to select a pedigreed brood mare.

You continue to deny the plain text of the Holy Word of Elohim
by dodging and weaving with meaninglessness.

b'SHEM Yah'shua

[Petronski]

God as ghostwriter; Mary as divine author, name above the title.

Planning your own church?

[Petronski]

LOL. Well maybe your time would be better spent reading less Milton and the Metaphysicals and Dr. Johnson, and more of the Bible in order to learn what Protestants believe.

Or just skip all that and read Gresham Machen. He's more Calvinist than Calvin!

[Petronski]

It seems either the Trinity has been expanded to four members, or Mary has simply taken the place of the Holy Spirit.

Why would you do that? Is it a Hypercalvinist thing?

[Uri’el-2012]

Take that up with PJ

It is correct as one understands history.

[Joya]

Quix appreciates the prayers for his family.