Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
“Do you not think He departed from the Old Testament?”
You seem to have misread me (by quite a bit.) I inferred, suggested no such thing. Let me restate: Jesus did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill the law. Christ came to give understanding to what was at the heart of the law. He did not abolish it. He magnified it, brought it to life (poor phrasing). Let me ask you, do you think that He said or did anything that departed from the Old Testament? If so, what was it? If not, if nothing can be found to show that He did opt for something other than scripture to live His divine life by, then we can conclude that Christ Himself was sola scriptura.
You are the one that said that sola scriptura was biblically inaccurate. I have suggested that the life of Christ reveals your statement to be false. I see you did not cite an instance where He departed from scripture in deference to the traditions of men, but have instead chosen to speak for whatever reason of the importance of Christ’s church. I am speaking of the person of Christ.
“...supercilious, doctrinare, accusations...”
Yes—and let me add: presumptions about the state of another’s soul.
LOL
I found the tract you quoted.
Here’s the link (read carefully):
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/peter.htm
You, now: You seem to have misread me (by quite a bit.) I inferred, suggested no such thing.
You, then: ...or show where He departed from scripture by keeping instead to the traditions of men.
Hmmm.
Does a Catholic protesting at the Republican National Convention make him/her a Protestant?
Here, again, is my reply:
Scripture at that time was the Old Testament. Do you not think He departed from the Old Testament?
And what did He do in His life? Did He write, or did He teach orally?
As for sola scriptura, did Christ come to establish a church that could not function for 1500 years (until the printing press)?
Please.
I would say that it’s not a case of “bearing the cross of agony”, which is a demeaning comment.
I have also been told the same thing by the same poster. It is a matter of having that type of post corrected, as it should be.
I would expect that the repeated manner of posting in which the poster tells others they are going to hell is a matter for correction within the forum guidelines—for the sake of the integrity of the forum. Calling it to attention doesn’t merit a snide evaluation.
I'd rather be the winsome dancing girl with an immaculate heart of gold.
Or a stewardess.
What is the term for someone who protests the Protestants?
Shots included?
If they’re protesting the Catholic Church, yeah, I’d say so.
Biblically well-educated.
Oooh, that's a good one. I'd take that if I were you, Mary. You can always trade up for something at a later date. To a flirty Pharisee, perhaps.
Now, prove every "Word" was written in the Bible.
Jesus Himself lived a sola scriptura life.
Then why didn't he tell anyone beside John to write anything down? Don't you think if it was that important He would have told us to follow the book that would be written?
LOL. Perfect.
You find slander very funny. "Perfect," in fact.
So where's His command to ammend the Scriptures and make them the highest authority.
If it were that important, don't you think we'd have been given unambiguous instructions?
PETRONSKI: Nope. Doesn't say that.
Of course it does, in black and white.
Perhaps you didn't read the excerpt which says exactly that.
Our very consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary calls upon us to make reparation for the offenses that we and others have committed against her.
Are you consecrated to Mary, Petronski?
You can call Christ a liar if you wish, if that is your personal interpretation, but you do it at your own peril.
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