LOL.
PSYCHOLOGICAL ORIGINS"
by Michael P. Carroll
Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
The payoff is the sense of frustration. Some feed off that, deriving existential strength and meaning for their lives from it. It’s why narcissists are often called “psychic vampires”. When one interacts with them one feels depleted and a little bit dirty.
I pray that if this is true, and I don’t know why it wouldn’t be, that you would listen, really listen to what the protestants are saying and not just believe that we’re trying to deceive you. We do care about the choice you will make.
I agree. He was born of the virgin Mary and became man. Mary was sinless, too, because God made her that way, so that she could bear the Son of God.
Yep, we do have a tendency to worship THINGS and people.
That’s right. Latin Americans have a tendency to do the same. Maybe American Catholics don’t but other countries feel differently.
Are Catholics permitted to believe something that is contrary to the RCC catechism?
Is the pope permitted to believe something contrary to the RCC catechism?
Oh yeah: Another symptom is thinking that because the rule permit gross rudeness it is morally okay to seek to give offense.
Wow! Do Catholics really believe this?
Please, try not to worship the Holy Bible.
Yeah, like that’s not enough?
Fortunately, I've studied, for example, Milton and the Metaphysicals, Dean Swift and Dr. Johnson, etc. so I don't think that. And if I want to understand the Protestant mind, I'd rather listen to Milton!
The best thing I love about the LCMS (and this cannot be said for all Lutheran churches, because the ELCA is off the liberal deep end and is just about to descend into full blown heresy with the homosexual thing...but I digress) is that the focus is fully and completely on Jesus Christ. The Theology of the Cross is first and foremost in Lutheran teaching. Jesus is front and center. We aren't putting things in his way, like doctrines of "election", or Marianism, or any other distractions. It's about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and that is reflected in our liturgy, which is virtually the same as the Catholic Mass (according to some Catholics I know who have attended our church for baptisms, etc, the Lutheran liturgy is identical to the Catholic Mass).
So, I guess, I'm getting the good parts of Catholicism - the "Mass" and the Eucharist. We believe in the real presence (for the Catholics here, don't tell me it's not the Eucharist - it most definitely is) without what I call "the made-up stuff" - the man made teachings with no basis in scripture or tradition (that's my opinion and that's how I see it).
Okay, read us off some of the ways he has the popes described in hell for starters, lol. By the way, some of us did graduate English courses too, lol
LOL.
AMEN!
Dante was Catholic. Do you want to criticize his Beatrice, too? I'm surprised you passed up the chance. How about his Vergil?
Should have added that you’re apparently thinking of Milton’s description of Pandemonium.
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