Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
It was a description of the pulled quote just above. Try to keep up.
***Which “authoritative” Church, the RCC or the Eastern Orthodox? Decisions, decisions.***
The Church is the authority. We are both the authority.
***The only REAL authority is GOD and He made it clear what would be in the Bible (Temporal speaking) before 100AD.***
Do you have evidence?
Be very careful to what you attribute the Holy Spirit. He IS in the reformed who receive Him. God knows. Do you?
The only REAL authority is GOD and He made it clear what would be in the Bible (Temporal speaking) before 100AD.
At Jamnia? LOL
A gathering of Pharisees ripping pro-Christian books out of the Bible is hardly the voice of God.
***You didn’t say “please”***
A peculiar habit of mine. If you would provide a list of names of the individuals that are not called by the Father to salvation and eternal life, I would be eternally gratified.
So, I would take that as a warning to watch your words. Is that what you’re saying??LOL
Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
AMEN.
******False Traditions of Men: In other words, the elect come to Christ, called by the Father, the rest are the depraved wicked and their lot is Hell.
Seems like sola scriptura fails here, unless that blue part can be found in Scripture.***
The good Dr. E. is surpassingly unable to provide verse that supports predestination to hell. None of her quoted verse proves anything to that effect.
She says it does, but it obviously doesn’t. I’m not sure short of language lessons what can be done here in order to rescue her from her theology of hate and death.***
***To: MarkBsnr
Forgot to add, what about the Apostolistic tradition of the Assumption (You know the topic at hand)?
5,824 posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:38:42 PM by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5815 | View Replies | Report Abuse]***
This is a little garbled. Could you please repost?
Not my words.
I am not your Judge. You must face Him; I don’t count.
Hmmm, Obama thinks there are 57 states. Doesn’t mean that’s right either.
Brother, be fair now! You ask for a list with no names? How can there be such a thing?
Damocles can’t hurt my soul. It is held firmly by the hands of God. I worry more about yours.
You work with a redacted Bible. I don’t expect you to understand.
Yes. If that person doesn’t know Christ, he will not be in heaven.
God is more powerful and more merciful than you can imagine.
You said: Hmmm, Obama thinks there are 57 states. Doesn’t mean that’s right either.
Yeah, who in their right mind would believe that the Holy Spirit had the power to inspire mere humans to write a number (pick any) of books that would be called the Holy Bible. That is just ludicrous. < /sarcasm>
Hey, I’ve been on dialysis much of my day and then to a party. I’m in NO shape to ‘keep up.’
May He give you strength.
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