Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Faith without works is dead. —Somewhere in the Epistle of Straw
Why do you think he felt the need to add it if it was already there?
I believe is what James was saying is that faith that does not produce good works is not real faith. IOW, we do good works because we are saved, not to get or stay saved. Good works is evidence of saving faith, a faith that has already saved us.
Becky
God so loved the world that He didn’t send a committee. One of my favorite lines...
= = =
INDEED!
That’s a fine circumlocution, but do you believe you are saved if your faith is dead?
LOL.
Who tells you these bizarre things???
We just had this big discussion about Faith and Works, and now you say we believe in the Eucharist for salvation? Marysecretary, I feel like your brainwashed against us. I don't mean it as an insult, I'm just baffled. Your perception of Catholics, is as if someone learned about Jesus, from the Jews. It is really . . .different from reality. Was your husband a practicing Catholic? I would guess - not.
Absurdities are commonly cause for laughter.
That’s why your posts are so funny.
So is Magicsterical.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
CONSERVATIVES FOR FREEDOM!
Ahhhhhh . . . got that afternoon personal assault in before 18:00.
Congrats.
It was not a personal attack. I referred to your posts. You have very thin skin.
Rom 3:
28
For we consider that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Martin Luther added ‘alone’ after faith, and interpreted works of the (Mosaic) law (such as diet, circumcision etc) as meaning ‘good works’.
Changes the entire meaning; no wonder some generations appear to have been seriously misled.
I’ve never found that word in any published dictionary. It is gibberish.
Hundreds of millions of souls misled by Luther and his iconoclastic successors.
This is a tough one:).
Are you speaking of me personally...or are you asking me to judge others?
Becky
See what I mean? It wasn’t sarcasm. Just the truth.
I’ve always felt that a definition of “good works” helps in discussions of this sort. Are good works, keeping the laws, partaking of sacraments, baptism, helping someone, etc. Or are all these “good works”?
Becky
I really don't know Protestant history or beliefs. I like Pat Robertson and Joel Osteen. I like the straight simple talk, and the evangelical zeal of some non-Catholics. I can assure you however, that anyone who is insulted or criticized will not react with open arms.
I transferred my daughter from a Catholic school, to a Christian school. That is how open minded I was. My Catholic friends told me, "they don't like us". So and so Calvary church, said "Catholics worship the devil".
I was innocently mad that they would gossip that way about fellow Christians. Sure enough, it turned out to be pretty much true. What a shame that we behave the way we do. All of us.
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