Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
You are wrong.
I have the same concern. Please be very weary not to cross the line of what belongs to God. The fact that we are with God, doesn't mean that we can be like God. Only He can judge, only He knows, and only He can determine who is right or wrong. That is why I simply try to ignore those things that I would normally consider offensive to God, done by others. Things like passing judgement on others, to me are God's domain.
Trust me I'm human, I do it. But I keep it to myself and ask God to forgive me. That's probably why God asks us to simply love each other and turn the other cheek and pray for each other. Because only He knows our heart and circumstances.
When my kids argue, it really bothers me. I love all of them and wish they would respect each other. I'm sure God feels the same about us.
Doing good works is great, just don’t depend on them for your salvation. It’s not faith AND works, it’s faith. Then God gives you good works to do. That’s when it counts.
I don’t think any of us who have put faith in Christ will find ourselves in a pickle. NOW, RC’s who are depending on the Eucharist for salvation may REALLY be in a pickle—the whole bottle of them.
Oh, sure. Trouble is Catholics listen to your magesterium instead of reading the scriptures for yourselves under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I think you all would come to some different conclusions if you did.
Oh, sure. Trouble is you listen to your magesterium instead of reading the scriptures for yourself under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I think you would come to some different conclusions if you did.
Did you know “Magisterium” is a proper noun?
I’ve been to Mass and I’ve been to Catholic funerals. I was brought up Episcopalian as well. I also listen to Joel Osteen sometimes. But the way it looks here, Protestants can learn from Catholics, but Catholics are hesitant to learn from Protestants, especially since we ‘worship the Bible.’
I can believe you or I can believe Christ.
John 6:50-67
My husband never had children. He was 51 when he married me, his first (and LAST—smile) marriage. He helped his best friend raise his three kids and they consider him their second father. He’s good to everyone. He has the gift of hospitality and a servant’s heart. When he was a Catholic, he was a recluse (not that that had anything to do with it). Now that he’s been born again (22 years now), he’s head usher, chair of all the dinners and for funeral dinners. Just ask him to help and he can’t wait. That’s what Jesus did for him.
That is not Biblical.
Service to others is a big help in leading unbelievers to Christ. If we don’t have love, we have nothing to offer anyone.
If He is, I haven’t been invited...LOL.
We can be Christlike but we can’t be as God. He IS the only one who knows our hearts and minds. But WE can know if we are saved because we’re His children and He has shown us the way. We don’t have to wait until the casket closes over us. Hallelujah!
I also was raised Catholic so I know where he's coming from.
Becky
I don’t care what it is. If I don’t feel like capitalizing a word, I’m not going to do it. I was a secretary for 28 years and now I’m not. I can be just as bad in spelling, grammar, etc. that I want. What freedom.
You will never be saved by works. You will be saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. THEN works are important.
Well, maybe not in YOUR Bible.
Becky
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