Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
You do. I don't think He will.
Isn't it stunning how just before the muslims over ran the EO the printing press was invented? The EO fled with all the manuscripts they had faithfully preserved and came west where those manuscripts could be quickly reproduced for everybody to read for themselves.
It's all from God.
Based on what you have already deleted, you no doubt want to delete 3854 too.
I should not have used the personal pronoun “you” when “one who argues” would have been the way to state it without “making it personal.”
Excellent,a t least what I played. They get it.
I do not accept the Catholic church. I knowingly and willfully and gratefully rebuke it.
If I died in the next 10 minutes with that truth on my lips, what would happen to me?
Knock it off or leave the thread. I am not your personal janitor.
Have you been baptized “in the name of the Father and the son and the Holy Spirit?”
I did that...LOL.
The RCC catechism is not Scripture nor is it a translation of Scripture.
There is a big difference between discussing the differences in beliefs and being critical of ideas, from taking it to a level of slander, misquoting, calumny, and personal attacks on individuals. If a Catholic did that I would think it was wrong also. We are not perfect, and neither are you.
ROTFLOL!
It's like you need a doctorate in juris prudence. I'm glad Jesus made it so simple.
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
Your truth; not ours.
Neither is the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Never claimed such.
That is a perfectly legitimate statement. God gave you free will.
Let’s hope I see you in Heaven, cuz if you don’t believe a Christian is a person who is saved, wow.
Luke 1:
[31] And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.
"sought her consent"?
I think you're right.
I still think he should google Laminin. ;-)
I showed that link to my wife and children, it is just too cool.
Pope Benedict needs not my humble attempts to “interpret” his words. He speaks to us all, in words we can understand if we choose.
Is that how Calvinists picture it? The Holy Spirit on the right, Mary on the left?
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