Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Thank you for further correcting the record.
Refuting anti-Catholic lies is a round-the-clock operation around here.
Apparently you missed Ratzinger's pronouncement last year.
lol. A lot of us didn't.
Ping to post #3,776 and the "defective" words straight from the horse's mouth.
I agree with you, however. Ratzinger's words were mighty "creepy."
Post 3776 does not include any words from Pope Benedict calling any Christians defective.
True—the Pope didn’t call any particular person “defective”.
If he referred to a community of believers, then I see the same and worse has been said by other Confessions regarding the Catholic Church.
In other Confessions, Catholicism (read practicing Catholics) is considered not merely defective, but blasphemous and satanic and —well, all those other more-than-hyperbole descriptions by other Confessions. Would that it had only described us as merely “defective”!
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It is you who deserves our thanks, Petronski. In defending our faith, no one works harder than you.
True—the Pope didn’t call any particular person “defective”.
If he referred to a community of believers, then I see the same and worse has been said by other Confessions regarding the Catholic Church.
In other Confessions, Catholicism (read practicing Catholics) we are considered not merely defective, but blasphemous and satanic and —well, all those other more-than-hyperbole descriptions by other Confessions.
I'll second that!
I’m blessed with the opportunity to do so.
Praise God.
Apologies for the double post.
I am certain that many more agree!
I’m sure some find it incredibly easy to lie about the Pope, especially those who believe he is the antichrist.
It was worth saying twice!
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." -- Luke 11:27-28"And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
Christ rebuked and corrected the woman who blessed Mary by saying "Yea, rather blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it."
Therefore, from Christ's own lips we learn that Mary was not blessed because she was His mother, but because she was a believer.
You said: That is a misstatement of Pope Benedict’s words.
Of course it is. In order to justify one’s warped view of the Catholic Church, one has to distort just about everything about the institution one despises.
It is a very sad thing to watch those who think you are doing Christ’s work and all the time they are attacking that which He loves. It is not the physical attacks he suffered at the hands of the Roman Empire, but they continue to crucify Christ by their words and attacks on His Church.
My prayers go out for those who truly wish to love Him, all the while attacking Him. May the Holy Spirit guide them out of their darkness and into the light of the fullness of faith in His One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
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Amen.
Notice it did not say read the Word. You hear the Word through reading Holy Scripture out loud and through Sacred Tradition, passed on by the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, not through some self-designated magisterical false Biblical interpretation of Holy Scripture.
Rather (via Strong's Concordance):
G3304
μενοῦνγε
menounge
men-oon'-geh
From G3303 and G3767 and G1065; so then at least: - nay but, yea doubtless (rather, verily).
I'll paste this, from Haydock's Commentaries:
Luk 11:28 Greek: Menounge, imo vero, yes indeed. Our Saviour does not here wish to deny what the woman had said, but rather to confirm it: indeed how could he deny, as Calvin impiously maintained, that his mother was blessed? By these words, he only wishes to tell his auditors what great advantage they might obtain by attending to his words. For the blessed Virgin, as St. Augustine says, was more happy in having our Saviour in her heart and affections, than in having conceived him in her womb. (Tirinus)
Of course the Blessed Mother was a believer (the first actually), the Church has NEVER questioned that.
Calvin would have us believe that Gabriel's words at the Annunciation left Jesus quite miffed.
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