Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
I learned most of what I know about the church right here on FR and also from my husband and former pastor, both of whom were Catholics. I wish no animosity with you, mgist. You are a person of reason and kindness. I’m sorry we must disagree on all this, but that’s just the way it is. We can still remain friends even if we disagree. At least I hope so.
Hey, you share yours. Why should you have all the fun??? LOL.
Why, my heavens. I didn’t know that...
Of course we are friends. More than that, we both have a hunger for God. We are both imperfect. We are sisters in Christ. I love my God, and therefore, I love you. I would never want to offend you. My only intentions are to help you understand my feelings. I wish you the best always. Let’s pray for each other.
No problem! This'll be easy!
First go to my post 3516.
Now find the part you didn't have any answer for in your reply on post 3529.
It shouldn't be hard to find. It's the part in the middle. Just after the first thing you answered in post 3529, but before the second thing you answered in 3529.
Now wasn't that a cinch?
Let's just say we are kindred(sp) spirits. LOL - Thanks again
I got you beat by 680 yrs!
Clement of the Scotch Church was condemned as a heretic by a council at Soissons in March 744. He was condemned for preaching"no councils, writings, decisions of the church that are contrary to Scripture have authority over Christians."
LOL, you’re not asking much are you?
It is as easy as “Jesus loves you” and as complicated as all eternity.
That was funny, I don’t care who you are.
>>Mom I’ll let you in on a secret because I like you.
The question is based on an absolute falsehood, thus is impossible to answer.<<
Actually, the question was about one particular poster. “why is it that someone who is such a devout adherent to the 16th Century invention called “sola scriptura” so frequently quoting from books other than the Bible?”
But thank you for the quote from Augustine of Hippo.
I will prayerfully read this and comprehend it as best I can!
Where’s the link for the St. Augustine quotes?
>> I am a dope. AND I have a wife and child to remind me should I forget.<<
I’m a dope too and have those sisters and hubby to remind me. The kids think I’m great yet!!!!
You put the name of St. Augustine in bold and his quotes in bold. Then you also put “Sola Scriptura!” in bold. Do you have a citation to St. Augustine quoting him as saying “Sola Scriptura!” or was that an embellishment?
The ONLY thing they had HUS up on was Sola Scriptura?
Idiotic game? Truth is an idiotic game?
...why don't you chase all your Catholic friends around with the same message?
Which Catholic freeper claimed this was a teaching of the Catholic Church?
Enjoy it while it lasts. It's sure fun having kids around.
>>Enjoy it while it lasts. It’s sure fun having kids around.<<
On the way home from church, I said to my hubby, “These girls need to get into the real world one day.”
My little one said, “Do I have to?”
“What do you believe is your basis for ultimate truth and how do you know it is trustworthy?”
“First rule of effective communication: define your terms...”
From what I’ve witnessed on this and other threads, you all don’t seem to have a problem understanding “ultimate truth”, saying each other is wrong in some of their theology or the basis of their theology or calling each other heretics or worse. How can one suggest that another is wrong or a heretic unless one makes the claim that he or she possesses ultimate truth?
I can appreciate the fact that one might not want to be pinned down by stating a position and cutting off a fluid avenue of evasion. But when you ridicule another’s position or make the claim that he or she is in error you must know what the truth is.
It might help those of us who are watching this and trying to make sense of what is going on if you all just state what you believe is your basis for ultimate truth and how you know it is trustworthy.
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