Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
The Douay-Rheims-Challoner Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, both provided to us by God through the work of the Holy Spirit, in the name of Christ our Lord and Savior.
First rule of effective communication: define your terms...
Ditto
Your funny. Honestly, can you imagine how Jesus felt with the Pharisees? Always trying to trick Him and catch him in his evil ways. No matter what He said. They knew He was wicked. My light today was to pray before any response to those who haven’t felt God’s real love. Not that I always do it, but we should.
You are awesome! Thank you for all that you do. Now that I have evolved in my faithwalk, I almost envy those of you who are so spritiually enlightened. It is because at the end of the day, all that matters, is God. What a blessing it is to have that faith. Very few people really do. I have come so far, but I feel like a toddler learning to walk, I fall all the time. People like you who walk in faith inspire me so much. Thank you. May God bless you a million times over.
Nicest post of the day! Thanks, mgist. :)
Hi Reggie:)
I’m doing OK...one day at a time.
I’m glad your doing well:) I see it’s the same ole same ole around here.
Becky
Why, the anti-Catholic bigot of course.
Amazing. The apostles each have thrones (Matt. 19:28, cf Rev 20:4) twenty-four elders (who may include the apostles) have their own thrones (Rev. 11:16), God sits on a throne (Heb. 12:2, Rev 1:5, 12:5), and Christ stands at the center of that throne (Rev. 7:17)...but I've never heard of Mary being seated at a throne in Heaven.
You're right, of course. But if you'll read John 9, you'll note the man born blind doesn't have a whole lot of patience for the guys giving him the "third degree" after he receives his sight.
My story's not quite that dramatic, but not too far off either.
Oh, of course...
Unless there is a freeper named “anti-Catholic bigot,” there is no one who has cause to take that personally (except maybe guilt).
Praise report! The dog only doo dood once and now he’s fine, and the water has been fixed by our friend who does that kind of work. He has to come back tomorrow to do some more but it was electrical. Whew. Pray now that it won’t cost us too much.
what "chain of reasoning" was that, exactly, as I sure don't remember any
looking over left shoulder .....
looking over right shoulder .....
.... concluding I misheard.
I am not enlightened. You know that, right? I am a dope. AND I have a wife and child to remind me should I forget.
I'm even more or less okay with being a dope.
God, HE's enlightenment. And, yeah, we do call Baptism "enlightenment". But anyone so "enlightened" is like the moon, reflecting a light that is not his.
But still, it was very kind of you to say such nice things and do pray for a blessing for me. Let us all pray for each other a LOT!
And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars (Apoc. 12:1).
The American Revision of the Westminster Confession of 1789 removed the "Pope is the Antichrist" reference. Who was right? The authors of the original Confession, those who removed it or neither? Best not to go there.
That's the beauty of a "Reformation" mentality. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Everything is subject to "reform", even as we speak and nothing is set in stone. When a "Confession" or proclamation is found to be unsuitable, no longer politic or inconvenient, there's another mini-Reformation, a new church is born, a new statement of beliefs and principles emerges and life goes on. Perfect!
Why should Luther be the only one who gets to nail his theses to the door?
Of course not. When we do it, it’s personal. When you do it it’s not. Why didn’t I know that? Silly me.
Well, I believe the Word of God. It was inspired by the Holy Spirit and it’s the truth. Period.
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