Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
>>You mean like telling someone they’re linking to a hate site when they’re not? <<
I posted the link with the Google search of the quote you gave. It reveled four anti-Catholic sites.
I posted the link to the Google search.
And again, the thread is “Do Protestants think Catholics are Christians?”
People can find out for themselves.
Sola scriptura is not supported by any Bible.
It’s a kind of retaliation for Prottys noting RC’s bowing down in front of wood statues of Mary.
It’s a dig at Protty’s focus on Scripture printed on wood pulp.
Since this is the core of the deceit, please provide Scriptural evidence of this blaspehmy.
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one." -- Romans 3:10
"But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin..." -- Galatians 3:22
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." -- Romans 5:12"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" -- Romans 3:23
Read your Bible.
So, IMO, that is what we should do, anything else is ADDING to scripture, something I’m not comfortable doing.
= = =
Wellllllllllll, the RC edifice has many centuries of practice AT THAT!
That's why I said bad choice of words. I think the Devil gets in my keyboard. In fact I'm nearly positive. XD
thanks. Please also pray for our water. We aren’t getting any. It just happened suddenly. No toilet, no water. And a dog that isn’t supposed to doo doo on the rug, just DID. Pray the water situation isn’t costly and can be fixed quickly.
Ahhhh welll . . .
some of them sooner or later continue to demonstrate the moth to flame compulsion. LOL.
Our church has a lot of ex-Catholics. Lovely folks.
But, but, they don’t believe the Bible is the final Word, Dr. E.
Tattle tale, LOL.
I’m not bound by the lying false doctrine that everything I believe can be proven from the Bible.
= = =
Casting aspersions on the Living Word of God
. . .
is . . . fascinatingly cheeky, imho.
. . . not one jot or tittle . . .
. . . Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall never pass away . . .
We don’t feel that way. Why do you?
By the way, Christ was born God and man, yet surely you do not include Him in that “all have sinned.”
So it is possible He could do whatever He wanted, despite what He would later write in the New Testament.
There is a lot more scripture about honoring scripture than about honoring mary.
= = =
by a wide margin.
Who is “we?”
Ask Dr. Eckleburg if Mary had the free will at that moment to say “no.”
Hey what do you expect from a crowd who considers their own opinions as fact.
Do not ascribe that poisonous idea to me.
If I had posted an incorrect reading of the catechism you might have a point. But I didn't. I posted the exact words of the RCC catechism.
Do you really not understand how this kind of meaningless back-and-forth is just deflecting any real discussions of the words themselves and what they actually mean?
Thankfully, anyone reading these posts can see what's occuring...over and over and over.
And why.
Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm." -- 1 Timothy 1:6-7"From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
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