Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Not when people continually turn their faces from Him. When their hearts are hardened, they’re done, like toast.
I do,too, Gamecock. That’s why I persist.
The verse says Scripture gives us enough to make us perfect...what could be more compete then perfection.
The scripture that this verse is referring too was the OT scripture. The OT scripture tells tells how the people before scripture was written were saved. They trusted God. They looked forward to the Saviors coming, we look back to it.
Becky
Since most conservatives are religious folk, it makes sense to have them discuss religious issues and, yes, even argue about them a bit. You don’t have to post on these threads. You can stick to just the political forum.
No, but I don't need one. I'm not bound by the lying false doctrine that everything I believe can be proven from the Bible.
Who are these RCs?
Rather than avoid God, Catholics so want to be with God that they eat His flesh and drink His blood, as He instructed.
Can you give me a passage where anyone in scripture prayed to someone who did not have an earthly body?
Becky
Hmm, it’s okay for Catholics to call names, but let a Protty do it and zot!!!
This verse is speaking only of things Jesus did.
I’m asking for a scripture reference where a person asked someone who did not have an earthly body to pray for them?
Becky
Mom, there’s not ONE poster here who has the devil in them. That’s such an insult. Just because YOU folks don’t agree with what we’re saying, doesn’t mean satan inhabits us. LOL. Well, LOL, if it weren’t so sad. I’m disappointed in you. You usually don’t talk that way.
Truth=obsession. OOOKKKKAAAYYYYYY.
Let’s pray he doesn’t. You can never tell what the next one might do. Catholics need to be vigilant on this.
Since you’ve obviously never read the bible, how would you know? lol
Honoring the bible is unbiblical? There is a lot more scripture about honoring scripture than about honoring mary.
We’ve already seen the church for what she is. That’s why we’re in this thread and others.
Excellent.
Adding to Scripture is exactly what you're doing when you give your opinion instead of the verse.
>>Mom, there’s not ONE poster here who has the devil in them. That’s such an insult. Just because YOU folks don’t agree with what we’re saying, doesn’t mean satan inhabits us. LOL. Well, LOL, if it weren’t so sad. I’m disappointed in you. You usually don’t talk that way.<<
No seriously, I always talk this way.
When it gets to a point that insults are flying here or anywhere on forums, it’s the only explaination.
I swear I’ve had it happen to me! I’ve gotten on a roll, laughing and joking in a very nasty way. I’ve had to apologize. I’m normally not that way and my only explaination is that the Devil has gotten to me.
So maybe the word “in” was wrong, and for that I apologize but when good people act badly, the Devil is there. He wants us to get smarmy and proud. It works to his advantage. I see it sometimes.
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