Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Nope that’s not it.
Since the Bible is literal to some people, one will need literal words, not the way a person sees it.
Give us the words, not a tapdance.
The Bible gives instructions of what to do AND what not to do. So where are the words that prohibit prayer to anyone beside Our Lord?
Bless you.
That was hillarious! LOL
>>Probably would have said the same thing <<
And then again, maybe not.
6. I declare with the saints: Mary is the earthly paradise of Jesus Christ the new Adam, where he became man by the power of the Holy Spirit, in order to accomplish in her wonders beyond our understanding. She is the vast and divine world of God where unutterable marvels and beauties are to be found. She is the magnificence of the Almighty where he hid his only Son, as in his own bosom, and with him everything that is most excellent and precious. What great and hidden things the all-powerful God has done for this wonderful creature, as she herself had to confess in spite of her great humility, "The Almighty has done great things for me." The world does not know these things because it is incapable and unworthy of knowing them.
Most of this is a rephrasing of what the Holy Spirit says of the Son of God!!!! For example:
Heb 1:3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person,
That’s what makes each one of us so interesting...
I agree with all you’ve said. It’s as if one water and a sip of wine could make up for all some of us have seen and walked through in our 30-40-50 and more years of walking with and serving the Lord. Cheez. What deception,.
I agree with all you’ve said. It’s as if one wafer and a sip of wine could make up for all some of us have seen and walked through in our 30-40-50 and more years of walking with and serving the Lord. Cheez. What deception,.
“This is getting to be a silly thread.”
It’s been silly for quite a while already.
O, for all the time wasted here that we cannot retrieve.
The three sorriest words for that time lost: “It’s too late”.
“Poor talkative Americans” as Bishop Sheen used to say.
It seems to have become it’s own form of self-worship.
Because you make your word equal to God's Word.
Amen, roamer. Great post.
Amen.
I was up too late watching foolishness on FR.
;-)
sitetest
I know many saved Catholics. But most of them left the church. Some stayed, but most left.
You do the opposite of the Father's will you are doing the work of Satan no matter what. You become an adversary to God the Father plain and simple. If my parents would want me to become an adversary against God I would tell them off. Would I be breaking a commandment? The Pharisees and Sadduccess would think so.
Jesus had to remind your first “pope” and those that accused Him of breaking the law of that folly.
Thanks, I added that one to my heresy file.
What *self* deception.
You do soooo much, and all “they” do is a cracker and juice.
Vanity.
>>I know many saved Catholics. But most of them left the church. Some stayed, but most left.<<
I know many saved Protestants. One of which is my husband who got nothing out of being Prebyterian but is now a militant Catholic.
What each of us “know” has really no bearing on the whole thing, does it?
Vain repetitions and all. LOL.
Well, it’s easy to make an assumption about what someone will do.
Since the situation never came up, “assuming makes an ass out of u and me.” as the phrase goes.
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