Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Not at all. I find it hilarious when someone accomplishes the exact opposite of what they intend.
What’s an RC?
evangelize Catholics through anger, vitriol and abuse
= = =
I don’t know of a single Protty hereon who does anything close to that.
Though some of us do realize that thin-skinned-ness seems to go hand in hand with extremely distorted perceptions andsensibilities.
Silly! An RC is a cola. Stand for Royal Crown, and it’s one of the best. Had it all the time when I was a kid, growing up.
. . . .
uhhhhhh . . .
. . .
purely wishy washy?
Great points.
Despite the failure of your powerful and keen perception in this regard, they do exist.
“We love you, but we hate everything you believe in. And don’t bother defending your beliefs, because we don’t really listen (otherwise we would have gotten it the first thousand or so times it was explained).”
= = =
Was the pretence that this quote came from RC’s or Prottys?
I’m repeatedly reminded of the Radio Shack catalogs of the early-mid 80s, talking about radio-control cars: RC this and RC that.
ROFL!
Doesn’t wash.
The RC edifice is full of linguists.
The RC edifice knows full well what English speakers the world over would tend to construe it to mean
regardless of how high the pile of RC rationalizations.
Therefore, the only viable conclusion is that the RC edifice WANTS that “misconstruing” to occur.
In other words, that a big chunk of the RC edifice intends folks to get THAT meaning as the main one intended.
“Why did you deprecate and even insult my mother in support of Scripture, which is far above any elevation you could offer it?”
I propose the following question as a thought experiment:
If Mary, her heart pierced as Scripture says, had asked Jesus to flee the Garden of Gethsemane, or to come down from the cross, would or would not Jesus have been obliged, in filial piety, to do so?
Reading for context will eliminate the need for pesky elementary questions.
RC edifice?
Is this an architectural facade navigable by radio control?
For the record . . .
I do not believe the current Pope is the Anti-Christ.
I do NOT know whether a future one will be, or not.
I do know that at least one RC prophecy predicts that evidently the Pope after this one will be evil.
Kathleen Keating—a devout RC has a lot of stuff on her site about such things.
Certainly Scripture indicates that the Anti-Christ will lead the world in ONE RELIGION that will worship him as God.
How that will come about and how the RC edifice will fall under that rule . . . is imho, the realm of fantastical guessing.
However, the RC’s seem to know a lot about RELIGIOUS fantasies foisted off as holy dogma.
Amazing the lies one can impute to the Catholic Church in just six lines of text.
It’s a cola display in a country store in the 50s.
Even so you had to pretend the primary definition never existed and settle on 2b.
Seriously, what’s an RC edifice? If it comes under the control of the antichrist, does that mean the antichrist will be running that little black steering box with the antenna? The one that steers the radio control architectural facade?
might want to try another cozier, safer corner.
= = =
a corner with no Bibles; lots of robotic yes-men and lots of foam and rabbit fur and a warm fire and especially a . . .
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