Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Thank you, RM.
"But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty..."
THE REUNION OF CHRISTENDOM
Encyclical Letter of Pope Leo XIII June 20, 1894
*******************
Ah, the classics! Tradition. Ain't it grand?
That's an expression I haven't heard in a while; that's like the bee's knees. ;^)
This the second time tonight I have plugged your quotes into google and been provided with a list of viciously anti-Catholic—and frankly darkly evil—websites.
Ignore the links or acknowledge them. The rest of us will learn much about your purpose here.
From the article, “ I had to admit to God and to myself that I was in love with Yvonne!”
Pretty much says it all, he messed up and so he wants to blame it all on the Catholic Church. We actually had an ex-priest and ex-nun who were married in the neighboring parish, they were mature enough to understand that it wasn’t the Church it was themselves. How they reconciled it with God, I don’t know, but the were both great teachers and worked in lay positions.
It is often the case that those who don’t or won’t hold to the teachings of the Church leave and blame the Church for their own faults without truly admitting any wrong in themselves. You know, it is how a lot of people behave when caught in a lie. They make excuses and blame it on someone or something else when it was all their own fault.
Sorry, you're the one who sees no difference with asking someone physically sitting next to you for something and asking someone who has been dead for 2,000 years for something. I'm starting to understand the Catholic definition-weaseling that goes on. "Worship" doesn't include, revere, prostrate to, sing about, or pray to. "Mediator" has been expanded to include anyone that will intercede. Even "dead" has been expanded to becoming little angels who minister to the living. For what purpose? To protect the image of a church that wishes to dole out forgiveness of a small set of sins while making up new ones?
And besides, mgist was just attacking the words of non-Catholics.
Can one be more in tune with the rules? :)
So the Catholic definition of "consulting" doesn't include "praying to" now? Or maybe the Catholic definition of "dead" doesn't include Christians?
His one mention of the Mother of God follows:
75. To think the papal pardons so great that they could absolve a man even if he had committed an impossible sin and violated the Mother of God -- this is madness.
Though he mentions Peter it is to complain aganist the blasphemy of him.
77. It is said that even St. Peter, if he were now Pope, could not bestow greater graces; this is blasphemy against St. Peter and against the pope.
Do you have a "special" version of the 95 Theses?
Hmm, verrryyyy interestink. With emphasis on the stink.
I guess the word Magisterium has little meaning to you.
We already have one in heaven. His name is Jesus.
Just a joke, right?
Haha ha ha ha ha . . . er . . . yeah, right.
“Mother of God”
You have no problem with that term?
Tell us all why you think someone might reply to questions about the 95 theses wit the curt response “I am not a Lutheran.”
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