Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
I think xzins is Methodist, maybe he knows
okay, I’ll send him a cow. I’ll Fed-ex it ASAP, cash on delivery
:)
Feel the love.
>>I am right. Look it up. The Catholic coined word is the exception.<<
No it comes up as the third entry on Answers.com
http://www.answers.com/topic/co-prefix?cat=health
They use co-pilot as the example.
Summoning the dead is very different from summoning the living (1 Sam. 28), and we are prohibited to seek them out (Deut. 18:9-14). As far as mediator is concerned, there is a more fleshed out meaning (Hbr 8:6) which places Jesus as the sole (Jewish-style) priesthood, but this just amplifies Jesus' position.
It’s not paranoia when it’s true.
In any event here's some counter propaganda for you.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+18:9-14
Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12
Well since I’m not “consulting” the dead but rather asking them to pray for me, I’m made in the shade!
I'm too tired for this. Find somebody else who thinks that kind of thing is reasonable. Maybe I'll feel more like it tomorrow.
Actually, I’m talking about the co- part meaning subordinate is on Answers.com
I DID look it up. You’re wrong.
Mad Dawg, you have built a beautiful model of the behavior. You’ve absolutely nailed The Game AND Argument by Attrition.
Is this a discussion of Christianity or a game of Three Card Monty?
mgist, you remain among friends.
I know. I’m just adding to the knowledgebase here.
I pick curtain #2. What are my prizes?
There must be some kind of relationship between this approach to discussion and the notion that reason is utterly depraved. Which seems to be a self-fulfilling prophecy in some cases. It might not have been depraved when they started out, but they sure don't use it now! I'm stuned. this is Hugh and series.
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