The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

[Ultra Sonic 007]

Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.

There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.

Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).

Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.

Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.

I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.

But do I WORSHIP them?

No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.

I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.

There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?

I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.

Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.

In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.

At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.

[tiki]

I don’t think you’ll get a reply.

[Mr. K]

no, sorry- it was not me

[papertyger]

I know PT won't see the significance here but I certainly thought of RCs when I read it. Here Jesus is saying that even He isn't between us and the Father

I'll settle for the Scripture no one will be able to find, thank you.

[mgist]

Mary is our spiritual mother. Jesus is our only Savior. For Catholics, their relationship with Mary varies. The more devoted we are to Jesus, the more we appreciate Mary, is usually how it works. Mary was the ultimate loving mother. Jesus gave her to us, his beloved disciples. She will ALWAYS lead us to Jesus. Since we believe in eternal life through Jesus, for us she is alive in God's kingdom and still serving Him. She continues to appear as apparitions. If you read her messages, you will have no doubt.

She continues to guide us.

One of the traditional appellations of our Our Lady is 'The Queen of Love and Compassion.' "On Christmas, Our Lady is said to appear with the baby Jesus. "I have come to tell the world that God exists. He is fullness of life, and to enjoy the fullness and obtain peace you must return to God."--Our Lady of Medjurgorje. The Blessed Mother asks people to return to a spiritual way of living, wholeheartedly devoted to and deeply engaged in spiritual practices. ."--Our Lady of Medjugorje.

The Blessed Mother encourages people to pray daily, pray often, and pray from the heart.

She is not the Savior, but being faithfull to God is a lot more to devout Catholics than simply being babtised in water. It is not easy in this world. She guides us to her Son like a loving mother would.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I want to take your word for it that the Co- stuff is not really a doctrine of the Catholic Church. There are many Catholics on FR and elsewhere who keep pushing the idea, though.

Read this FR thread and see all the many RCs proudly high-fiving the very notion of Mary as "co-redeemer."

PADRE PIO AND THE MOTHER CO-REDEMPTRIX

[netmilsmom]

>>Well it’s Catholic theology <<

Where is it Catholic theology? Can you give us a link to it so we can see?

[dan1123]

Where in Scripture are we told not to pray to anyone other than God?

1 Tim 2:5 -

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Mary is not my "spiritual mother." Thank God.

To Christ belongs all the glory.

[netmilsmom]

>>Read this FR thread and see all the many RCs proudly high-fiving the very notion of Mary as “co-redeemer.”<<

And there are Catholic that are for Birth Control. That doesn’t make it Catholic doctrine.

Give us a link to the Vatican that has “co-redeemer” in it.

[1000 silverlings]

You can’t post that, it doesn’t exist, lol

[Petronski]

Mary is not my "spiritual mother." Thank God.

Spurn her if you must, but she persists. For that, you can thank God.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I’m not Lutheran.

[Judith Anne]

Reggie, I had a prottie neighbor tell me that was how to get tha answer to a question I had about the Bible once. She said that’s how to get the answer: Open the Bible at random, and point to any verse. The verse you point to was supposed to answer the other question.

Just another one of the reasons I’m not prottie, myself, today.

[1000 silverlings]

It doesn’t exist. Got it

[papertyger]

Where do you see a prohibition there?

[Petronski]

Nothing on or about that thread can make “co-redemptrix” a doctrine of the Catholic Church.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I see. More "do as I say; not as I do."

I guess some Catholics think people are fooled by this.

[Petronski]

I’m not Lutheran.

I guess Luther just wasn't anti-Catholic enough.

[wagglebee]

Read this FR thread and see all the many RCs proudly high-fiving the very notion of Mary as "co-redeemer."

Did you even bother to read the thread?

Nearly the entire thread was back and forth with the Religion Moderator about what did and did not constitute a caucus after a group of Protestants tried to swarm a caucus thread. There were quite a few posts removed, do you recall if any were your's?

[1000 silverlings]

It exists until it’s pointed out to be illogical, then it doesn’t exist. Now you see it, now you don’t.