The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

[Mad Dawg]

Spell it right DM, “We don’t need no steeenking Bible.” There. Fixed it.

So repeating a mocking and untrue charge is part of that ministry of love you were talking about?

[Mad Dawg]

See the post right after yours.

[Quix]

So they cannot or will not imagine the closeness to God that we hope for or the out-pouring of self that we think God offers.

HOGWASH.

Reads like more RC institutional monopolistic elitist arrogance, to me. Perhaps Amy Carmichael’s IF has not been read. Or Corrie Ten Boom’s autobiographical narratives. Even the very intellectually lofty C.S. Lewis and Frances Schaeffer offer plenty of evidence otherwise. Bill Gaithers music offers plenty of evidence otherwise. As does Dennis Jernigan’s and Fernando Ortega’s. Protestant authors offer a wealth—an abundant wealth of evidence to the contrary.

Actually, fantasizing that a concocted caricature mangling the authentic Biblical Mary thoroughly out of whack and then pretending that an inordinate focus on the caricature of her is somehow equal to a supreme closeness to God that Prottys can’t imagine . . . is . . . words almost escape me . . . outrageously . . . one of the more preposterously arrogant sounding postulations I’ve read in a long time.

. . . they are too dazzled to see those words in our language . . . .

LOL.

Dazzled? By RC words?

A weak faith leads to a weak hope.

Agreed.

Though the assumption accompanying that assertion appears to be that Prottys have said “weak” faith and RC’s faith is on the other wonderfully glorious extreme.

Cue laughing dog.

I thought that what God promises is always going to be better than the best we can imagine.

Of course! GOD IS GOD! And He promised such explicitly in His Word. I believe Him, too!

From here it looks like they have some limits on what God offers, and an anemic understanding of "we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is."

Oh, really? LOL.

Not at all. I’d wager my expansive expectations of God and His gifts to His children in eternity against any RC’s any time.

[Quix]

I agree with your points.

except that for most folks . . . the things I do not capitalize in a sentence end up more highlighted to their minds. LOL.

Thanks thanks.

[Mad Dawg]

They take personally what is only a clash of ideas.

I believe you are mistaken.

No. wait. I should have said,
"HOGWASH! GTTM!" (guffaws to the max.)Further the other day you put up a post seeming to say that we say that Mary existed before Creation. I asked if you were kidding or not.

If you were kidding, how was that post, alleging that we believe something we do NOT believe, a clash of ideas? If you were NOT kidding, then what kind of clash is it when the one of the ideas is one we repudiate but you allege of us? Find somebody who DOES think Mary existed before Creation and clash with him.

In either case, the clash of ideas description seems false, at least as far as that post is concerned.

But in any event, this is no longer speculation. I don't think it's true of all who disagree with us on FR, but it is now known to be true of some, that their point is not to have a clash of ideas but to irritate, to drive people nuts. And, yes, if someone sets out to irritate me or a group I'm in, I take that personally, as it was meant.

I am delighted to discuss the ideas. I can't wait to start.

[Mad Dawg]

>>Yet who’s the ones complaining about feeling hated! Sheesh.<< Well actually, no. We don’t complain about being hated.

I'm surprised you missed an assumption. "feeling hated." Note the condescension. We complain about a feeling.

But I say again, when we have at least a couple of people discussing raising a point to upset us, NOT because of the truth of the point, then the proposition has been shown to be so. Some Protestants here desire and intend ill for some Catholics here.

[Mad Dawg]

Between pilots, the co-pilot is junior to the pilot, and the co-captain is junior to the captain. So here are cases in English where "co" does NOT mean equal.

If we had decided that co-redeemer was a good thing to say officially about Mary, we could mean the junior relationship. You'd have an open and shut case if we started calling GOD co-redeemer. Until then, you only have one of two choices and many, many grounds to think we go with the junior choice.

[Mad Dawg]

It didn’t work, I still don’t think there’s an argument there. Lots of noise. No argument.

[Philo-Junius]

It’s not just in airplanes:

Co-stars are subordinate to the stars;

Co-conspirators are subordinate to the main conspirators;

Coadjutors are subordinate to suffragan bishops;

Co-dependents are subordinate to their dependents;

we could go on and on, but really there’s little point.

The language offends them, and they prize their offence over any attempts to explain or to provide context.

[John Leland 1789]

“Reads like more RC institutional monopolistic elitist arrogance, to me.”
*******************************************
Correct. Much of the same is expressed when many talk about the Eucharist (the Mass). Many get all mystical sounding about it and claim some kind of superior emotion and almost spooky sounding experience when they eat the bread and then the priest drinks the hooch (Oh, excuse me, consecrated hooch). By the way, Do the people drink “His Blood,” or only the priest class.?

Many who have fallen into the modern (unbiblical) notions of sign gifts do the same when talking about “tongues” and ecstatic experiences. They get very proud of themselves for being possessed with some kind of wild fire of which the Bible says nothing, and blaming it on the Holy Ghost, become very arrogant. Why, if you haven't experienced it, your salad is short a cherry tomato. I use this as an illustration, not intending to raise yet another doctrine on this thread.

People who have walked a long Christian life in fellowship with Jesus Christ and witnessed countless direct unmanipulable answers to prayer and seen miracle after miracle, and a harvest of souls are told that they got shorted on their french fries because they don't take Rome's Mass or own a figurine of Mary holding Jesus sprawled across her lap -— (were she stand she would be 25% taller than Him).

Emotion or mystical experience become matters of only subjective analysis, and in the Lord's work it is unwise to compare ourselves among ourselves in quantities of fruit, for it is God Himself who gives the increase.

[Quix]

Thanks.

Well put.

. . . even to this Pentecostal. LOL.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I think it's habitual, and indicative of a weak argument and a combative nature and a need for a temporal authoritarian figure outside of Christ and the Gospel.

It could also be a sign of a sodium deficiency in the diet.

"Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men." -- Matthew 5:13

[roamer_1]

The language offends them, and they prize their offence over any attempts to explain or to provide context.

I would submit that is our Lord whom we prize, and that which He has given us. Your explanations fall upon deaf ears because they cannot be true. There is no context in which a 'co' of any kind will be sufficient. I will not suffer that credit being taken from Christ by even the least increment, subordinate or otherwise.

That Jesus died for me at Calvary shows His deep and abiding love for me personally. What need have I for any other? My Lord need not be wheedled nor convinced with regard to His concern for me and mine. We stand boldly before the Holy of Holies and simply ask. No "goddess of heaven", no angel, no saint, no "priest" gets credit for that. There is only one Redeemer. There is only one Mediator (Priest). One Savior is all I need.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Amen!

I had a wonderful beloved friend who had ALS. Her eyes shone with the Love of Jesus. It was a shekinah glory. She comforted us!

Why does that devastating disease seem to attack only the nicest people? Our accountant was a lovely man with a beautiful family who was diagnosed and died of ALS within four short years. It was tragic.

God's ways are His to know and ours to accept. Mercifully, this life is all prelude.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Spit the hate forth!

I most certainly do not hate Mary and you are wrong to say so with such regularity. Mary was the mother of the Christ child.

Mary was not, however, a co-redeemer; a dispensatrix of all grace; an intercessor between God and men; nor any of the dozens of other blasphemous titles the RCC sullies her good name with.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Our Loving Mother always leads us to greater understanding of Her Son.

She's not my mother.

Where in the Bible does it say Mary leads anyone to Christ?

It doesn't.

The Scriptures and the Holy Spirit lead men to the full understanding of Jesus Christ and the victory He alone won for His sheep on the cross.

"How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. " -- Psalm 119:103-105

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Well I’ll sort that out with the “Big Guy” when I get up there.

Bring your notes and prepare to explain yourself.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Thanks, FTD!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The RCs constantly complain people who post here hate them? They take personally what is only a clash of ideas. Hiding behind that facade gives them a reason not to critically examine their religion’s theology. Isn’t it just “the poor me, I’m a victim” defense?

Amen! Just tonight I posted to the dreaded "hate" assault.

They need a new drug.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

It is impossible for God to heal someone at the behest of one of His saints in heaven.

Your question itself is faulty and presumes something not in evidence.

There is no Scriptural support for the extra-Biblical teaching of Rome that says saints in heaven intercede on men's behalf.

We do, however, have Scriptural evidence which disputes that error since the Bible tells us the only mediator between God and men is Christ Jesus.

And starting a sentence with "Is it impossible for God to (fill in the blank)" is a child's game. I don't play it. I stick to the Scriptures for my answers.